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  #151  
Old 04-10-2018, 11:28 PM
ckp160 ckp160 is offline
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I canít remember if it was you, but I asked about the deregulation of suppresors as a common sense gun law. Are you against that? Hearing protection and noise abatement being the two concerns.

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  #152  
Old 04-11-2018, 12:37 AM
Jim2Dokes Jim2Dokes is offline
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They also didn’t have the internet or TV, or people blowing themselves up in the name of God, yet we haven’t revisited the 1st.

I’m guessing you don’t understand the difference between a Tommy Gun and an AR15. One being fully automatic (which are HEAVILY regulated) and the other being semi-automatic. You are aware people hunt with the AR platform rifle, correct?

You didn’t answer any of my questions. I asked them because I don’t know if you understand all the laws that are in place already. I’m really not trying to be condescending. I, legitimately, would like to explain to you anything you have questions on if I can answer them. There are a LOT of laws in the books right now.

I know you say that anybody who needs a gun to hunt shouldn’t fear tighter regulations. However, we (pro gun crowd) look at what’s happening in the UK and it’s not a stretch to see it happening here.

Here’s an example of how effective a gun can be in protecting a home:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...uspect-n462006
I do know the difference and once the Tommy gun was banned “they” didn’t come after your kitchen knife, although it is illegal to carry specific knives out there. Okay, that’s one link, I can give you 20 mass shootings. I am talking about real sepecfic data on how many lives are saved from home invasions with AR15s. And I was always taught to hunt with bolt-action rifle, using ar15 is just not fair or respectful to the animal. Why do I need to answer your question about laws when i have my own thoughts on what laws should be in place. Mostly, on the front end before a gun is purchased, that includes banning the ar 15 or any gun that can fire a certain amount of rounds per minute. That’s my immediate solution to prevention these terroists from killing a mass number of people in a limited time. I have not seen a better one, and if these people didn’t ruin it for everyone like the shoe bomber ect. I would careless if people had rocket launchers. Btw, why can I have a grenade launcher and not a Tommy gun?

Last edited by Jim2Dokes; 04-11-2018 at 12:44 AM.
  #153  
Old 04-11-2018, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by davislove View Post
What happens in the uk doesn't mean it will happen here. To be honest I'd rather have stabbings then mass shootings.

If you don't want common sense laws, then control your idiots. I'd like to see gun supporters police themselves when it comes to being responsible gun owners.

I can't see how you can watch that kid shoot up a school then see him get fan mail and money sent to him and not see a problem. Some of these gun supporters are sicker then the shooters.
I'll take my chances with gun violence, British food sucks.
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  #154  
Old 04-11-2018, 12:45 AM
ckp160 ckp160 is offline
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But guns kill more people per that cdc report.
I'm home now so I was able to look that up on the computer. According to the exact same report I used in my previous post, you are correct, by less than 100. That is including the the suicides, which I do not attribute to gun violence, as I stated in my previous posts. If you want to include suicide, we'd have to research how many of those gun deaths were self defense, or police related and I'd bet the numbers would reflect differently.
  #155  
Old 04-11-2018, 12:52 AM
jessemoore97 jessemoore97 is offline
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Originally Posted by davislove View Post
What happens in the uk doesn't mean it will happen here. To be honest I'd rather have stabbings then mass shootings.

If you don't want common sense laws, then control your idiots. I'd like to see gun supporters police themselves when it comes to being responsible gun owners.

I can't see how you can watch that kid shoot up a school then see him get fan mail and money sent to him and not see a problem. Some of these gun supporters are sicker then the shooters.
The parallels are there. I'd rather not see any types of attacks, but that's not reality madmen exit whether they kill one or a hundred people. Focusing on the criminality rather than the instrument is my approach.

How do I or anyone else control our idiots? I teach and practice, as an example, responsible gun ownership and safety with my family and people I hunt and shoot with. I don't like people getting CCW by taking online courses without the benefit of classroom and range time with instructors to help to further drive home the values of safety and being responsible.

So the kid has groupies. That's hardly a new phenomena, notorious people have gotten support from various nutters forever. I'm not going to get my feathers in a bunch over it, do I think it's ridiculous, yes absolutely but what should be done? Last I checked he hasn't been convicted, yet. And there's nothing preventing a person from getting support and legal funds for his defense. And to totally clarify those comments are no way an endorsement of that POS and what he did.
  #156  
Old 04-11-2018, 12:54 AM
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Btw, why can I have a grenade launcher and not a Tommy gun?
You can have both, actually. It just takes the required paperwork. Which is no small task. The ATF is very involved in that.

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Okay, that’s one link, I can give you 20 mass shootings.
I venture to say that I can find you 20 times that a gun... maybe even an AR15.... was used in self defense. One of the magazines I occasionally peruse has a monthly section devoted to firearms used in self defense.

Quote:
I do know the difference and once the Tommy gun was banned “they” didn’t come after your kitchen knife, although it is illegal to carry specific knives out there.
And when "they" enacted guns in the UK nobody had gone for knives, yet here "they" are in the UK doing that right now.

It's fine that you don't like guns and are scared of the dreaded AR15. I just can't figure out why you want ME... a law abiding citizen, who has a full understanding of how to handle firearms responsibly, and is comfortable owning an AR15... not to own one.
  #157  
Old 04-11-2018, 12:55 AM
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Davislove.... your signature is ironic given your stance on gun control.

As far as the Parkland shooter is concerned.... where are you getting your sources that his fan mail is coming from gun rights activists?

Just so I can get a feel for what you know about guns and their legal purchase.... I have a couple questions for you and the other gun control advocates.

1. What are the steps to purchase a gun from a licensed dealer?
2. What is the gun show loophole and how could it be corrected?
3. What is the definition of assault rifle?
4. What is a gun free zone, and how has it stopped crime?
5. What is the description of a common sense gun law?

and practitioners of Islam can stop all Muslim terrorists from killing people for having different views in religion than themselves. In the name of safety.
I'm not taking a test to respond on a message board. That's just weird.

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Davislove.... your signature is ironic given your stance on gun control.
I don't think you understand my stance on gun control.

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Originally Posted by ckp160 View Post
As far as the Parkland shooter is concerned.... where are you getting your sources that his fan mail is coming from gun rights activists?
I didn't say where the fan mail is coming from. Nice try though. I just said he was getting fan mail and money sent to him. Wouldn't surprise if gun rights activists and conservatives were sending money to this killer. Also wouldn't surprise me if you think the Parkland shooting was a hoax or a plant by the democrats to try to get guns band.

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Lastly, Iíll pose the same challenge to you in regards to controlling ďmy idiotsĒ....
Weíre going to go ahead and disallow the First Amendment until ANTIFA can stop all members from the destruction of property at their rallies,
We're not gonna compare some freedom of speech rally with some gun nuts going on a shooting sprees. If some conservative wants to give a speech at Berkley but 85 percent of the student body don't want them there, well that's freedom of speech as well.

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Black Lives Matter can prevent all members from burning neighborhoods
BLM is not a group, it's a movement just like the me too movement for women. We all know how to prevent those black neighborhoods from burning, train the police--who carry guns everyday to learn what a gun looks like.

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and practitioners of Islam can stop all Muslim terrorists from killing people for having different views in religion than themselves. In the name of safety.
Muslim speak out all the time on terrorist acts. We can't stop all acts of violence but we can take action to decrease them.

You want to stop the muslim terrorist attack? then stop the di@kmoves. The Charlie hebdo's and drawing mohammed events are just fanning the flames.



But aren't these shooters terrorist? Again how are you gonna control your idiots? Ted nugent is at again saying democrats should be shot. Sounds a lot like those muslims you speak of. How come none of you are speaking up about him. Why not tell him to just shut up a pick his guitar?
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  #158  
Old 04-11-2018, 12:59 AM
jessemoore97 jessemoore97 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim2Dokes View Post
I do know the difference and once the Tommy gun was banned ďtheyĒ didnít come after your kitchen knife, although it is illegal to carry specific knives out there. Okay, thatís one link, I can give you 20 mass shootings. I am talking about real sepecfic data on how many lives are saved from home invasions with AR15s. And I was always taught to hunt with bolt-action rifle, using ar15 is just not fair or respectful to the animal. Why do I need to answer your question about laws when i have my own thoughts on what laws should be in place. Mostly, on the front end before a gun is purchased, that includes banning the ar 15 or any gun that can fire a certain amount of rounds per minute. Thatís my immediate solution to prevention these terroists from killing a mass number of people in a limited time. I have not seen a better one, and if these people didnít ruin it for everyone like the shoe bomber ect. I would careless if people had rocket launchers. Btw, why can I have a grenade launcher and not a Tommy gun?
So like the example I mentioned about the chefs in the UK, your arbitrary opinion about what to use and how to hunt with should dictate everyone else's options.

It's illegal to carry certain knives? Could you expand on that a bit.
  #159  
Old 04-11-2018, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by davislove View Post
I'm not taking a test to respond on a message board. That's just weird.

I don't think you understand my stance on gun control.



I didn't say where the fan mail is coming from. Nice try though. I just said he was getting fan mail and money sent to him. Wouldn't surprise if gun rights activists and conservatives were sending money to this killer. Also wouldn't surprise me if you think the Parkland shooting was a hoax or a plant by the democrats to try to get guns band.



We're not gonna compare some freedom of speech rally with some gun nuts going on a shooting sprees. If some conservative wants to give a speech at Berkley but 85 percent of the student body don't want them there, well that's freedom of speech as well.



BLM is not a group, it's a movement just like the me too movement for women. We all know how to prevent those black neighborhoods from burning, train the police--who carry guns everyday to learn what a gun looks like.



Muslim speak out all the time on terrorist acts. We can't stop all acts of violence but we can take action to decrease them.

You want to stop the muslim terrorist attack? then stop the di@kmoves. The Charlie hebdo's and drawing mohammed events are just fanning the flames.



But aren't these shooters terrorist? Again how are you gonna control your idiots? Ted nugent is at again saying democrats should be shot. Sounds a lot like those muslims you speak of. How come none of you are speaking up about him. Why not tell him to just shut up a pick his guitar?

FFS. ......... Lol
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  #160  
Old 04-11-2018, 01:32 AM
ckp160 ckp160 is offline
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I'm not taking a test to respond on a message board. That's just weird.
Wasn't asking you to take a test, just asking what you may or may not know about some of the definitions and current laws.

Quote:
I don't think you understand my stance on gun control.
Which is why I asked you questions. I'm not trying to belittle you. It's hard to have a conversation with somebody who is unwilling to share their understanding of things. Which is why I usually just listen when people speak about things I don't know.

Quote:
I didn't say where the fan mail is coming from. Nice try though. I just said he was getting fan mail and money sent to him. Wouldn't surprise if gun rights activists and conservatives were sending money to this killer. Also wouldn't surprise me if you think the Parkland shooting was a hoax or a plant by the democrats to try to get guns band.
Now you're just trying to belittle me. I asked you a question about your source because I was GENUINELY surprised at the insinuation that gun rights folks were loving what that guy did. You don't know anything about my beliefs, and considering you've resorted to insults I assume you don't care to know. Ad hominem?

Quote:
We're not gonna compare some freedom of speech rally with some gun nuts going on a shooting sprees. If some conservative wants to give a speech at Berkley but 85 percent of the student body don't want them there, well that's freedom of speech as well
We can compare it when you're saying law abiding folks shouldn't be allowed to have something because other people are misusing them. Freedom of speech and right to keep and bear arms are directly connected.

Quote:
BLM is not a group, it's a movement just like the me too movement for women. We all know how to prevent those black neighborhoods from burning, train the police--who carry guns everyday to learn what a gun looks like.
Okay.... a movement. Noted. You should ride along with the police sometime and maybe see how confusing the situation can get. There are a couple cops on this board. Maybe they can chime in about situations that aren't so clear cut.

Quote:
Muslim speak out all the time on terrorist acts. We can't stop all acts of violence but we can take action to decrease them.

You want to stop the muslim terrorist attack? then stop the di@kmoves. The Charlie hebdo's and drawing mohammed events are just fanning the flames.
You're implying that Muslims speak out, and gun owners smile smugly when a shooting happens. Also, your Charlie Hebdo and Mohammed events are akin to blaming a woman who flirts with a man is responsible for when she gets raped.

Quote:
We can't stop all acts of violence but we can take action to decrease them.
Which is exactly why we have the rules we have in place for gun ownership.
  #161  
Old 04-11-2018, 02:37 AM
Jim2Dokes Jim2Dokes is offline
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So like the example I mentioned about the chefs in the UK, your arbitrary opinion about what to use and how to hunt with should dictate everyone else's options.

It's illegal to carry certain knives? Could you expand on that a bit.
Sure, I meant coceal carry certain knives or it can be illegal depending on the circumstances of the situation. Having a machete under a car seat, versus having one with hiking gear.
  #162  
Old 04-11-2018, 04:03 PM
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Almost finished Sons Of Anarchy. They have crossed the grey area numerous times on guns. Mainly, bad from my take. Interesting they had an episode of a young boy taking an Uzi(I think) to school and unloading on other kids. But they transitioned the episodes well on why they did that. Anyways, worth the watch since the show is about a biker ďclubĒ distributing guns throughout the west coast.
  #163  
Old 04-11-2018, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ckp160 View Post
Wasn't asking you to take a test, just asking what you may or may not know about some of the definitions and current laws.
I know enough. I know they need to be revisited


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Originally Posted by ckp160 View Post
Which is why I asked you questions. I'm not trying to belittle you. It's hard to have a conversation with somebody who is unwilling to share their understanding of things. Which is why I usually just listen when people speak about things I don't know.
You referenced my signature and spoke as if you knew my stance. Now you are agreeing with me that you don't. You're kinda all over the place

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Originally Posted by ckp160 View Post
Now you're just trying to belittle me. I asked you a question about your source because I was GENUINELY surprised at the insinuation that gun rights folks were loving what that guy did. You don't know anything about my beliefs, and considering you've resorted to insults I assume you don't care to know. Ad hominem?
Listen, a kid seen wearing a maga hat shooting a gun who later goes on a shooting spree is now getting fan mail and money sent to him. It was a dumb question. For the second time I never said gun rights folks were sending him money. You're trying to be slick with your wordplay. From now on quote me, don't tell me what I said.

Now I'll ask you a question. Assuming your loved ones will die a painful death if you don't answer this honestly. Who do you think is sending this kid money-Democrats in favor of sensible gun control laws that work or Republican gun lovers?


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We can compare it when you're saying law abiding folks shouldn't be allowed to have something because other people are misusing them. Freedom of speech and right to keep and bear arms are directly connected.
I'm not a banning guy, never spoke of banning guns. You like to put words in peoples mouth to help support your case. But pretty much every law we have is due to people misusing something.

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Originally Posted by ckp160 View Post
Okay.... a movement. Noted. You should ride along with the police sometime and maybe see how confusing the situation can get. There are a couple cops on this board. Maybe they can chime in about situations that aren't so clear cut.
That's a issue for another day. I've been intrigued by police work for a while now and I often speak with officers on this board about their work. You can quote that.

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Originally Posted by ckp160 View Post
You're implying that Muslims speak out, and gun owners smile smugly when a shooting happens.
I'm saying gun nuts would rather continue having mass shootings then to change the status quo. This is a pretty long thread and I haven't went back and read it but from what I recall there is very little if any pro gun folks that have spoken a bad word about the shooter. Me calling him an idiot got a greater reaction out of you here then his killing of 17 kids.


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Also, your Charlie Hebdo and Mohammed events are akin to blaming a woman who flirts with a man is responsible for when she gets raped.
it's not.

We know that Muslims take their religion seriously, no separation of church and state. Religion is the law. When you attack their god--that's fightin words. We know this but then some want to act shocked when they get bit after pulling the dogs tail. Paint a picture of Jesus doing something sexual on your house and I'd bet you home would get trashed, if not burned to the ground.


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Originally Posted by ckp160 View Post
Which is exactly why we have the rules we have in place for gun ownership.
And mass shooting by gun toting idiots becoming common practice and what should be reasonable adults unwilling to stand up against domestic terrorist because of their own selfish reason is why we need to scrap those toothless gun laws and get real.
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  #164  
Old 04-11-2018, 08:23 PM
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Davislove,
I started to answer your response, but decided itís obvious you and I do not agree, so itís a waste of both our times. Instead Iím going to renew my NRA membership and enjoy the 2nd Amendment while I still can.
  #165  
Old 04-11-2018, 08:40 PM
Grace Flanner Grace Flanner is offline
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I'm saying gun nuts would rather continue having mass shootings then to change the status quo. This is a pretty long thread and I haven't went back and read it but from what I recall there is very little if any pro gun folks that have spoken a bad word about the shooter. Me calling him an idiot got a greater reaction out of you here then his killing of 17 kids.
I am pro gun, and I am pro gun control laws. Sensible laws, like the ones that already exist but are not enforced.

Saying that Nikolas Cruz is an idiot does not characterize him fairly at all. Nikolas Cruz is anything but an idiot. Nikolas Cruz is a cold-blooded murderer. He is a murderer who plotted and then carried out this heinous crime. He is a murderer who had a terrible childhood. He is a murderer who has psychological issues. He is a murderer who was known to the FBI and known to the local law enforcement officials. Had those entities had the tools, finances, correct people in charge, and follow-through that are/were needed, this situation might never have happened.
  #166  
Old 04-12-2018, 01:54 AM
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Davislove,
I started to answer your response, but decided it’s obvious you and I do not agree, so it’s a waste of both our times. Instead I’m going to renew my NRA membership and enjoy the 2nd Amendment while I still can.
That’s great, came here wanting a discussion asking where the folks that want more regulations to argue with and then you go. Offer no solutions for kids getting killed, just leave with that shiny card and your gun extension of yourself. Later, enjoy the shooting range or closet dust while the ar15 kills 20 more kids.
  #167  
Old 04-12-2018, 02:01 AM
Jim2Dokes Jim2Dokes is offline
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I am pro gun, and I am pro gun control laws. Sensible laws, like the ones that already exist but are not enforced.

Saying that Nikolas Cruz is an idiot does not characterize him fairly at all. Nikolas Cruz is anything but an idiot. Nikolas Cruz is a cold-blooded murderer. He is a murderer who plotted and then carried out this heinous crime. He is a murderer who had a terrible childhood. He is a murderer who has psychological issues. He is a murderer who was known to the FBI and known to the local law enforcement officials. Had those entities had the tools, finances, correct people in charge, and follow-through that are/were needed, this situation might never have happened.
Yeah? And you think that’s rare? Florida has the toughest mental health law in the country which gets abused all the time, look at this thread I already pointed it out. You know what’s most common with mass shootings? Ar15. You know what’s most uncommon with violence? Mental health, most likely the victims than perpetratorss.
  #168  
Old 04-12-2018, 05:58 AM
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Yeah? And you think thatís rare? Florida has the toughest mental health law in the country which gets abused all the time, look at this thread I already pointed it out. You know whatís most common with mass shootings? Ar15. You know whatís most uncommon with violence? Mental health, most likely the victims than perpetratorss.
Really? Weapon of choice aside, you don't think mental health has anything to do with violence? I'd argue much differently on that.
  #169  
Old 04-12-2018, 06:04 AM
jessemoore97 jessemoore97 is offline
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Thatís great, came here wanting a discussion asking where the folks that want more regulations to argue with and then you go. Offer no solutions for kids getting killed, just leave with that shiny card and your gun extension of yourself. Later, enjoy the shooting range or closet dust while the ar15 kills 20 more kids.
I still don't get this gun as an extension of yourself insult I've seen you throw out time to time. Why? Is being able to defend yourself from oppression and violence in their extreme forms somehow a immoral and bad value?
  #170  
Old 04-12-2018, 01:15 PM
Jim2Dokes Jim2Dokes is offline
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Really? Weapon of choice aside, you don't think mental health has anything to do with violence? I'd argue much differently on that.
Not saying it isnít, I am pointing out that it creates an inaccurate picture of mental health to associate people with mental health disorders as violent. And the misdirection of oh itís mental health, but letís not do anything about guns. Again, Florida has the most stringent commitment law in the country. Second question, an extension of self, extension of personality part of you, needing it like a child needs a teddy bear to feel secure.
  #171  
Old 04-12-2018, 01:51 PM
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Wanted to use some different examples to see the impact on this discussion. At the end of the day, there is a good deal of give and take in balancing risk to self and others, cost (both to individuals and society), and personal freedom around many areas, not just guns. There is also no one "correct" answer, given the different perspectives of 300+ million people in the US.

1) Since drunk driving causes over 10,000 deaths a year in the US, should the government ban all alcohol to prevent these deaths from happening? Perhaps just the 5 most dangerous types of alcohol should be banned however that can be determined?

2) Since certain models of cars have a higher chance of causing a driver's death, should the most dangerous cars on the list be banned given their danger to society? If so, who gets to decide on which models? Top 5? Top 10?

3) Statistically speaking, motorcycles are more dangerous than guns. 300 million guns in the US to 38,000 gun deaths, 8 million motorcycles to 4,000 motorcycle deaths. Should motorcycles be banned?

4) Since speed driven is a key factor in whether or not a death occurs, should all cars be limited by governors to 45 miles an hour to prevent deaths?

5) Sixteen people die everyday due to pedestrians being hit by cars. Should city speed limits be lowered to 20 mph given the impact on vehicle speed to pedestrian deaths? Is banning AR 15 rifles basically the same as making everyone drive 20 pmh to the grocery store since the goal of both actions would be to save lives of innocent people?

6) Assuming that it is possible to create a car that is almost risk free, but it would cost $200K per car. Should the government mandate that all new cars must meet that high level of safety?

7) Tobacco. Should it even be legal?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-...tes-of-deaths/

https://gizmodo.com/how-likely-you-a...-on-1778993900
  #172  
Old 04-12-2018, 03:36 PM
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I am not interested in chimining in on the big debate, but wanted to address two points:

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1) Since drunk driving causes over 10,000 deaths a year in the US, should the government ban all alcohol to prevent these deaths from happening? Perhaps just the 5 most dangerous types of alcohol should be banned however that can be determined?
Tequila should be banned, it makes people stupid. And not just dropped on your head too many times stupid. We could call this the "Girls Gone Wild Act of 2018"

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Originally Posted by jbrown_9999 View Post

2) Since certain models of cars have a higher chance of causing a driver's death, should the most dangerous cars on the list be banned given their danger to society? If so, who gets to decide on which models? Top 5? Top 10?
The driving test should tell you what kind of cars you are able to drive, it needs to be tuned up. Nothing ticks me off worse than sliding up behind a sports car thinking it will go reasonably fast only to have it putter along 15 miles under the speed limit. Then you pull along side and it is an old man or another driving impaired individual who can't see over the steering wheel. Hate it.
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  #173  
Old 04-12-2018, 03:43 PM
Jim2Dokes Jim2Dokes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown_9999 View Post
Wanted to use some different examples to see the impact on this discussion. At the end of the day, there is a good deal of give and take in balancing risk to self and others, cost (both to individuals and society), and personal freedom around many areas, not just guns. There is also no one "correct" answer, given the different perspectives of 300+ million people in the US.

1) Since drunk driving causes over 10,000 deaths a year in the US, should the government ban all alcohol to prevent these deaths from happening? Perhaps just the 5 most dangerous types of alcohol should be banned however that can be determined?

2) Since certain models of cars have a higher chance of causing a driver's death, should the most dangerous cars on the list be banned given their danger to society? If so, who gets to decide on which models? Top 5? Top 10?

3) Statistically speaking, motorcycles are more dangerous than guns. 300 million guns in the US to 38,000 gun deaths, 8 million motorcycles to 4,000 motorcycle deaths. Should motorcycles be banned?

4) Since speed driven is a key factor in whether or not a death occurs, should all cars be limited by governors to 45 miles an hour to prevent deaths?

5) Sixteen people die everyday due to pedestrians being hit by cars. Should city speed limits be lowered to 20 mph given the impact on vehicle speed to pedestrian deaths? Is banning AR 15 rifles basically the same as making everyone drive 20 pmh to the grocery store since the goal of both actions would be to save lives of innocent people?

6) Assuming that it is possible to create a car that is almost risk free, but it would cost $200K per car. Should the government mandate that all new cars must meet that high level of safety?

7) Tobacco. Should it even be legal?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-...tes-of-deaths/

https://gizmodo.com/how-likely-you-a...-on-1778993900
1. It is illegal to drive drunk, it is illegal to buy alcohol and drink alcohol if under 21, it is illegal to be drunk in public, and most places it is illegal to drink in public.
2. There are autos you can’t drive on the streets, cars have to meet certain safety requirements.
3. Self-inflicted.
4. There are already speed limits, speed zones, stop sign laws, and a host of other laws to prevent accidents. Also, you need to renew a license every so often and register your vehicle every year.
5. Result of negligence and bad road design for the most part. I know you hear in Europe a person targeting people with an auto, but 50 people don’t die and very rare in US.
7. Self inflicted

Using cars actually gives people who want gun control more points than the opposite. It is harder to get a license to drive than an ability to own a gun legally. Also, most people NEED a car to be able to live their lives, most people do not need a gun.
  #174  
Old 04-12-2018, 08:00 PM
jessemoore97 jessemoore97 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim2Dokes View Post
1. It is illegal to drive drunk, it is illegal to buy alcohol and drink alcohol if under 21, it is illegal to be drunk in public, and most places it is illegal to drink in public.
2. There are autos you canít drive on the streets, cars have to meet certain safety requirements.
3. Self-inflicted.
4. There are already speed limits, speed zones, stop sign laws, and a host of other laws to prevent accidents. Also, you need to renew a license every so often and register your vehicle every year.
5. Result of negligence and bad road design for the most part. I know you hear in Europe a person targeting people with an auto, but 50 people donít die and very rare in US.
7. Self inflicted

Using cars actually gives people who want gun control more points than the opposite. It is harder to get a license to drive than an ability to own a gun legally. Also, most people NEED a car to be able to live their lives, most people do not need a gun.
But needs and wants is exactly where the argument goes with guns and cars. Someone wants something that legally they can possess and there's nothing restricting their ownership for it other than affording it. You don't have to have a DL to own any vehicle to be clear, so ownership and driving are two different things.

I usually don't argue the car point anyway. However car ownership and gun ownership is indeed very similar. There is an awesome responsibility owning and operating both since improper use of either can have lethal consequences. Driving a vehicle is essentially steering a few thousand pound bullet everywhere you go. Law enforcement isn't able to get all the bad drivers off the road and take away their driving privledges for dangerous driving habits. There's extensive regulations and laws governing both, yet individuals are the ones who ultimately make the choices and have the responsibility of heeding the laws. If they don't there are individual consequences to their actions and depending on the situation much larger ramifications to others in a variety of ways.

This ties directly into my good or evil thread. Despite my belief that people are inherently evil/sinful etc, I still favor choice and the rights of individuals to exercise free will in making decisions while accepting that responsibility and accountability for their actions no matter the consequences. Meanwhile most people who are generally more left leaning and believe people are good, not necessarily you, favor limiting the freedom of choice and responsibility for some greater societal good. Which to me is at odds with their outlook, why limit people and what they want or need if everyone is basically "good"?
  #175  
Old 04-12-2018, 09:41 PM
jbrown_9999 jbrown_9999 is offline
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I probably made a mistake listing everything in a single post so will expand my thinking one item at a time.

FACT #1) It is documented that a car hitting a pedestrian doing 40 mph is much more likely to kill them than a car going 20.

Quote:
"Speed is a killer for sure," says Geraci. "If a pedestrian is struck at 20 miles an hour, they have a 10 percent chance of dying. If they are struck at 40 miles an hour, they have an 80 percent chance of dying."
FACT #2) An average of 16 pedestrians die every day from being hit by cars (mostly in urban settings).

Most likely a Fact #3) More pedestrians are killed by cars then by AR 15 rifles each year.

Given the first two facts above, should not there be a groundswell movement to have the federal government pass a law to protect pedestrians from dying by making all urban speed limits 20 mph so that cars are not as dangerous? Perhaps cars should be restricted to go no faster then 20 mph?

Based on the linked articles, this would cut the number of traffic-related pedestrian deaths by over half and have more of an impact than banning AR 15's.

https://gizmodo.com/how-likely-you-a...-on-1778993900

Note: I have not vetted this article but it seemed reasonable

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0e6a52304248a

Last edited by jbrown_9999; 04-12-2018 at 09:44 PM.
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