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Old 01-21-2020, 07:15 PM
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Default Final Rivals Rankings

Rivals 100

Jordan Johnson: 5-star, #28 overall (down 3)
Michael Mayer: 4-star, #36 overall (up 1)
Chris Tyree: 4-star, #78 overall (down 35)

Not sure why Tyree fell so far. It sounded like he did fine at the UA All Star practices, although he didn't make an impact in the game. Also, Tosh Baker was around #50 overall at the last update, so not sure why he fell so far. He was injured in All American Bowl practice on the first day - not sure that's a reason to drop him 50+ spots.
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Old 01-21-2020, 07:50 PM
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It makes zero sense how a guy can be 58 in one update and then fall that far in a monthís span after a minor injury in All-star practices. lol

This isnít sour grapes either. We are talking about a difference of one month. Your evals changed that much?
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Old 01-21-2020, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by LasVegasIrish View Post
It makes zero sense how a guy can be 58 in one update and then fall that far in a monthís span after a minor injury in All-star practices. lol

This isnít sour grapes either. We are talking about a difference of one month. Your evals changed that much?
Exactly. The last update took place after his senior season. So there's no more tape to evaluate. All that happened was he got injured.

I can sort of see the Tyree thing given the concerns about his size. But that one doesn't make a ton of sense either because those concerns have been there the whole time - nothing changed on that front. He won the UA skills competition and the fastest man competition. He didn't get a ton of work in the game, but I don't see why he fell that far. It was the 4th biggest drop in the Top 100.
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Old 01-21-2020, 08:56 PM
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Do you guys think it's like here at times? Meaning enamored with the shiny new toy. Tyree and others aren't shiny anymore, but some of these other guys may be new? What do you think?
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Old 01-21-2020, 09:37 PM
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These rating systems are so flawed and meaningless. These guys will shine on the field for the Irish no matter what.
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Old 01-21-2020, 10:12 PM
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Do you guys think it's like here at times? Meaning enamored with the shiny new toy. Tyree and others aren't shiny anymore, but some of these other guys may be new? What do you think?
I think that's certainly part of it. Judging by some of the big risers and fallers, it seems like Rivals put a ton of stock in the all star events. I think those events are important for sure - to see how these guys compete against the best of the best and how they stack up. But most of these guys have been doing the camps and combine circuit for 2 or 3 years, so the evaluators should have a really good feel for everything well before the all star week. I think the rankings after their senior seasons should be pretty close to final. I don't think Rivals should be moving kids up or down 30+ spots based on one all star event like they did for about 10 recruits in the Top 100.
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Old 01-21-2020, 10:49 PM
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Rivals 100

Jordan Johnson: 5-star, #28 overall (down 3)
Michael Mayer: 4-star, #36 overall (up 1)
Chris Tyree: 4-star, #78 overall (down 35)

Not sure why Tyree fell so far. It sounded like he did fine at the UA All Star practices, although he didn't make an impact in the game. Also, Tosh Baker was around #50 overall at the last update, so not sure why he fell so far. He was injured in All American Bowl practice on the first day - not sure that's a reason to drop him 50+ spots.
Tyree barely played as a senior in high school. Then he was okay in practice. Nothing spectacular. I thibk hes ranked where he should have been all along. He is tiny.

I think the reason on Baker was he only weighed 271 pounds and has a lot of physical development left.

My biggest complaint would be with Baker.

And I think Johnson is rated a little higher than he should. It all evens out
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Old 01-21-2020, 11:28 PM
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Tyree barely played as a senior in high school. Then he was okay in practice. Nothing spectacular. I thibk hes ranked where he should have been all along. He is tiny.

I think the reason on Baker was he only weighed 271 pounds and has a lot of physical development left.

My biggest complaint would be with Baker.

And I think Johnson is rated a little higher than he should. It all evens out
That's fair about Tyree. Although, his size hasn't changed, so I'm not sure why it's a huge concern now. Again, I think he did fine at the UA practices - he won the skills competition and the fastest man. He's not an every-down RB, so that is probably part of the reason. I just don't think that much changed from December to now to justify dropping him 35 spots.

Agree on the rationale Baker, although he should be a Top 75-ish player. He has a ton of potential. It's funny to compare Rivals to 247 because the 247 guys love him. I expect him to be easily in the Top 75 when they do their final rankings.

I agree that JJ may be ranked higher than he is. He is a great route runner and has great hands, but his athleticism doesn't jump out like it does for most 5-star WRs. I think he will have a solid career, but I don't think he will be an impact player as a freshman, like a lot of 5-star WRs are.

Mayer is 2 spots away from being a 5-star. I don't really understand Rivals reasoning there. Mike Farrell said it was because he was lacking the athleticism of a 5-star. That seems like a lazy take to me - he is super athletic and dominated games on offense and defense. He won MVP at the Opening, and has really excelled at all star camps and combines. I've said it before, but I really feel like the only reason he isn't a 5-star is because there are two other 5-star TEs. That shouldn't matter, but I think it does here.

Will be curious to see where Pyne ends up. He was just outside the Top 100 at the last update (#118 ), and he was one of the best QBs at the UA All Star Event. He doesn't have prototypical size or arm strength, but he is a really good QB. I think he will get a big jump up from 247 who currently has him as a 3-star.

I think Botelho could have risen significantly if he had been able to participate in the All American Bowl. His suspension makes any move up the rankings unlikely. Still a Top 200 player (really, better than that).

Kevin Bauman did well at the Polynesian Bowl, but Rivals did their rankings before then. He should stay around #130 overall (where he was in December).

Rylie Mills didn't participate in any all star games. He was a monster this year and should be really good. Should be a Top 150-ish player.

That's probably it for ND commits. I think Xavier Watts is criminally underrated by Rivals (#89 WR). 247 has him as a 4-star and #255 overall, which I think it appropriate. Carmody was outside the Top 250 and I think #35 OT. Not sure he did anything to warrant a jump in the rankings at the All American Bowl.
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Old 01-22-2020, 02:47 AM
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Leave it too these **** heads to drop their rankings. Chris Tyree was very under utilized in the UA-AA game. I know that was a factor in the final rankings. Jordan Johnson is Mike Floyd good....i should say Floyd at Notre Dame good, really **** the bed in the NFL. Michael Mayer imho is the best TE in this class, he does nothing but dominate everywhere he goes. May have the second coming of Kyle Rudolph, but with Tyler Eiferts speed. I hate these rankings, i mean this years Heisman Trophy winner and CFP MVP was only a 4* in ESPN and ranked over 275 if im right. Most sites had Burrow as a High 3* until OSU signed him and then got his final star. It happens all the time with us, Johnny Best 6'5 220lb Dual Threat QB is ranked #1 on every recruiting site, started as a freshman for national powehouse high school. Won four straight State Championships, finished his HS career with 175 TDs 4 ints and threw for over 4500 yards RRushed for 1000 in 3 of 4 years, also rushed for 3500 yards in his career He also bolstered a staggering 79% completion rate and a perfect QBR. Every elite program has offered him, including Notre Dame. Few months later crystal ball predicts he signs with Alabama, every scout is salivating about this kid, plays like Lamar Jackson, but built like Andrew Luck and possesses the arm strength of Patrick Mahomes, he is destined to be the first 3 time heisman. He is then Tabbed as an Elite 5* worthy of a sixth if available. Breaking news Super QB Johnny Best has decommitted from Bama, says Bama, OSU, Clemson, UGA and Notre Dame are in his top 5. Two weeks pass, we are Going to The UA all American game where Johnny Best is gonna announce his commitment. He has passed for 375 yards and 4 tds in the first half. Everyone's saying he is the best QB prospect ever and is the Clear #1 player in America. This fall i have decided that the school with the most to give me on the field and in the classroom, so this fall i will taking my skills to South Bend, too play for Coach Kelly and the Fighting Irish. Everybody is shocked, analysts thought he was all the way committed to Clemson or Bama. 25 minutes later, Rivals releases their final rankings, headlined "Best of the Best, Johnny Best has chosen Notre Dame, but plummets in the final rankings". A consensus 5* DT-QB has dropped 43 spots and now has his 5* taken from him. Sorry for the rant guys, but S**T this always happens too our recruits. Tyree is the truth, Johnson will be a 1st Rd. Draft Pick and Mayer may be the best TE we've had since being dubbed TE-U.
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Old 01-22-2020, 05:33 AM
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Leave it too these **** heads to drop their rankings. Chris Tyree was very under utilized in the UA-AA game. I know that was a factor in the final rankings. Jordan Johnson is Mike Floyd good....i should say Floyd at Notre Dame good, really **** the bed in the NFL. Michael Mayer imho is the best TE in this class, he does nothing but dominate everywhere he goes. May have the second coming of Kyle Rudolph, but with Tyler Eiferts speed. I hate these rankings, i mean this years Heisman Trophy winner and CFP MVP was only a 4* in ESPN and ranked over 275 if im right. Most sites had Burrow as a High 3* until OSU signed him and then got his final star. It happens all the time with us, Johnny Best 6'5 220lb Dual Threat QB is ranked #1 on every recruiting site, started as a freshman for national powehouse high school. Won four straight State Championships, finished his HS career with 175 TDs 4 ints and threw for over 4500 yards RRushed for 1000 in 3 of 4 years, also rushed for 3500 yards in his career He also bolstered a staggering 79% completion rate and a perfect QBR. Every elite program has offered him, including Notre Dame. Few months later crystal ball predicts he signs with Alabama, every scout is salivating about this kid, plays like Lamar Jackson, but built like Andrew Luck and possesses the arm strength of Patrick Mahomes, he is destined to be the first 3 time heisman. He is then Tabbed as an Elite 5* worthy of a sixth if available. Breaking news Super QB Johnny Best has decommitted from Bama, says Bama, OSU, Clemson, UGA and Notre Dame are in his top 5. Two weeks pass, we are Going to The UA all American game where Johnny Best is gonna announce his commitment. He has passed for 375 yards and 4 tds in the first half. Everyone's saying he is the best QB prospect ever and is the Clear #1 player in America. This fall i have decided that the school with the most to give me on the field and in the classroom, so this fall i will taking my skills to South Bend, too play for Coach Kelly and the Fighting Irish. Everybody is shocked, analysts thought he was all the way committed to Clemson or Bama. 25 minutes later, Rivals releases their final rankings, headlined "Best of the Best, Johnny Best has chosen Notre Dame, but plummets in the final rankings". A consensus 5* DT-QB has dropped 43 spots and now has his 5* taken from him. Sorry for the rant guys, but S**T this always happens too our recruits. Tyree is the truth, Johnson will be a 1st Rd. Draft Pick and Mayer may be the best TE we've had since being dubbed TE-U.
Tyree was just okay in all american and poly practices. But he didnt pop. He wasnt ripping up the practices. Combine that with not playing much as a senior and he hasnt grown or put much weight on. I expected a drop in rankings.

Jordan Johnson IS NOT Michael Floyd good. Floyd was extremely special. Day 1 impact guy. Johnson is not that.

Mayer is an absoluye stud

Tyree is fast, but not an every down back. Id be shocked if Johnson was a 1st round pick. I dont think he has the athleticism or ability of a Chase Claypool who is a freak and Chase isnt going 1st round. I agree on Mayer
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Old 01-22-2020, 02:00 PM
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Tyree was just okay in all american and poly practices. But he didnt pop. He wasnt ripping up the practices. Combine that with not playing much as a senior and he hasnt grown or put much weight on. I expected a drop in rankings.

Jordan Johnson IS NOT Michael Floyd good. Floyd was extremely special. Day 1 impact guy. Johnson is not that.

Mayer is an absoluye stud

Tyree is fast, but not an every down back. Id be shocked if Johnson was a 1st round pick. I dont think he has the athleticism or ability of a Chase Claypool who is a freak and Chase isnt going 1st round. I agree on Mayer
I think it's premature to say Tyree can not be an every down back. He is known to run well through the oline and break arm tackles consistently. Here are his hs stats:

He had over a 100 carries his freshman-junior years (prior to his injury) averaging 8-9 yards a carry. In 2018, he actually had 177 carries. Realize this is hs not D1 but clearly he is used to being the main guy. I'm not saying the guy will be able to carry it 30 times a game but 15-20 a game is possible. Him and Shipley would be a devastating combination. Both are bigtime.
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Old 01-22-2020, 03:31 PM
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Thanks guys there is some good thoughts here. Itís nice to hear some honest perspectives.
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Old 01-22-2020, 03:57 PM
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I do have to laugh. In this day and age, how many teams use a single back anymore. Especially,under Kelly. Tyree will fit here just fine here as long as he can pass block. Which with his size, Iím sure will keep Tyree on the sideline, what, until his junior year?
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Old 01-22-2020, 05:24 PM
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Rivals 250

Drew Pyne: 4-star, #117 overall (up 1)
Kevin Bauman: 4-star, #127 overall (up 1)
Tosh Baker: 4-star, #136 overall (down 88 )
Rylie Mills: 4-star, #154 overall (up 7)
Jordan Botelho: 4-star, #175 overall (up 23)
Micahel Carmody: 4-star, #230 overall (new to Top 250)

Overall, pretty solid showing for ND - every commit moved up, including one new member of the Top 250 in Michael Carmody,with the exception of Tosh Baker. I still don't understand how he dropped 88 spots - one of the biggest drops in the Rivals 250.

Notre Dame finishes with 9 recruits in the Top 250, which is exactly 50% of the class.
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Old 01-22-2020, 05:36 PM
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For comparison, ND finished with 7 (out of 22) Top 250 recruits in 2019 , 10 (out of 27) in 2018, and 8 (out of 21) in 2017. The highest ranked recruits in those three classes were Quinn Carroll (#68 ) in 2019, Houston Griffith (#43) in 2018, and Brock Wright (#44) in 2017.
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Old 01-22-2020, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golson5 View Post
Tyree barely played as a senior in high school. Then he was okay in practice. Nothing spectacular. I thibk hes ranked where he should have been all along. He is tiny.

I think the reason on Baker was he only weighed 271 pounds and has a lot of physical development left.

My biggest complaint would be with Baker.

And I think Johnson is rated a little higher than he should. It all evens out
The thing with Baker that I donít agree with, is they always preach rather having a guy a little thinner so they can groom him with good weight. Heís an incredible athlete and also trims down for basketball. The weight concerns for him with Rivals are way overblown. 247 raves about how he looked compared to other lineman before the injury, so there is obviously a disconnect between evaluators. Dropping a guy 80+ spots in a monthís time is the head scratcher though.
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:43 PM
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The thing with Baker that I donít agree with, is they always preach rather having a guy a little thinner so they can groom him with good weight. Heís an incredible athlete and also trims down for basketball. The weight concerns for him with Rivals are way overblown. 247 raves about how he looked compared to other lineman before the injury, so there is obviously a disconnect between evaluators. Dropping a guy 80+ spots in a monthís time is the head scratcher though.
Yeah, I dont agree with it. He has huge potential
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Old 01-23-2020, 02:27 AM
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Mayer not being a 5* is a tragedy. The kid is a stud and should be a lock to be a NFL draft pick.
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Old 01-23-2020, 02:41 AM
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Again these are my opinions of these recruits. Jordan seems too play so effortlessly, again your views are your views, though i may not agree with them, i will defend your right to state them, because your a "Domer" lol. Tyree is a very intriguing prospect too me, i think he will be successful in our system under Tommys playcalling. I believe we will revert back to a pass heavy offensive style. Not 70/30 Pass to Run either. More like 55/45 imho. So CT wont need to be an everyday down back, but will be on the field every down in one way or another, im thinking a Theo Riddick 2012 role, with more carries. Yes i agree we wont see him much this year past game 3 unless he absolutely lights up our defense. Do however see him getting the nod to put his talents on full display in 2021 hmmmm.... (Riddick 2012, Breakout 2021). Offensively i know we have very good talent everywhere sprinkled with elites in every position group. Defense is my area of concern, not really concern, more like address aggressively immediately.
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Old 01-23-2020, 03:47 PM
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I don't think you can look at this in a vacuum. I mean, have you guys looked at the other players who jumped them? Maybe some guys developed or showed up on the circuit that were simply better... Not that our guys got any worse.
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Old 01-23-2020, 07:28 PM
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I don't think you can look at this in a vacuum. I mean, have you guys looked at the other players who jumped them? Maybe some guys developed or showed up on the circuit that were simply better... Not that our guys got any worse.
Thatís the case when a guy moves up or down a few spots like Jordan Johnson. When a guy moves down 3 spots or even 10 spots itís not usually a reflection of them but more of others. Rivals had a ranking come out in December that had Baker at 58 and now heís 136. In a monthís time I donít see how opinions change that much - especially when the other site (247) was saying the exact opposite of Baker. Iím not saying our guys have to be ranked high or low, I trust the staff and scholarship offers Baker had. Heís gonna be really good imo - so from that standpoint I donít care where heís ranked. It just doesnít make much sense from a months time is all.
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Old 01-24-2020, 02:23 PM
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Final Offensive Position Rankings

Drew Pyne: #7 Pro-QB
Chris Tyree: #4 APB
Jordan Johnson: #5 WR
Xavier Watts: #89 WR
Jay Brunelle: NR
Michael Mayer: #3 TE
Kevin Bauman: #5 TE
Tosh Baker: #13 OT
Michael Carmody: #22 OT
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Old 01-24-2020, 03:58 PM
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ND is now ranked #14 on 247 for 2020 recruiting class - a big improvement of two spots versus being #16 in 2019

Perhaps BK will someday recruit a class ranked in the single digits again (maybe all he needs is a new private plane, perhaps ND should buy two planes just to be sure)

BTW, Texas with one less recruit (17 vs 18 ) is #9 for 2020.
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Old 01-24-2020, 04:05 PM
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ND is now ranked #14 on 247 for 2020 recruiting class - a big improvement of two spots versus being #16 in 2019

Perhaps BK will someday recruit a class ranked in the single digits again (maybe all he needs is a new private plane, perhaps ND should buy two planes just to be sure)

BTW, Texas with one less recruit (17 vs 18 ) is #9 for 2020.
If you do it by average player rating, ND is 10th. But I agree with the point I think you are making - ND needs to be better at recruiting to truly compete for a National Title - they need to be closer to 5th, not 10th. Off to a good start in 2021, but they need to keep building and finish strong, unlike the past few years.

1. Georgia (94.22)
2. Clemson (93.59)
3. Alabama (93.44)
4. LSU (92.84)
5. Texas (91.84)
6. Ohio State (91.77)
7. Auburn (91.25)
8. Texas A&M (91.04)
9. Florida (90.65)
10. Notre Dame (90.56)
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Old 01-24-2020, 04:12 PM
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If you do it by average player rating, ND is 10th. But I agree with the point I think you are making - ND needs to be better at recruiting to truly compete for a National Title - they need to be closer to 5th, not 10th. Off to a good start in 2021, but they need to keep building and finish strong, unlike the past few years.
I would like to be optimistic that things will change and BK will at least recruit like he did in his early years at ND but it seems that "every" year for various reasons, what started out as a very promising recruiting class for the next cycle doesn't quite measure up come signing day.

Even the admittedly very early 2021 class has slipped from #1 to #2 (and is propped up by Greg Crippen who probably will not be a ND recruit)

Last edited by jbrown_9999; 01-24-2020 at 04:15 PM.
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