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  #76  
Old 01-27-2020, 12:33 AM
ELDER06 ELDER06 is offline
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The military is bloated beyond belief. However to say otherwise would make you "unpatriotic".

I think aiming to not waste billions of dollars everywhere is actually a pretty patriotic thing in my mind.
If if you cut military spending and heavily tax the ďrichĒ, itís nearly enough to pay for all of the programs the far left wing of the Dem party wants.
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  #77  
Old 01-27-2020, 12:36 AM
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You canít look at it in a vacuum. Yes, I support him, because there is no reasonable alternative. Hillary was no alternative... Her and her clan point fingers at Trump hoping you wonít notice how horrible they are. And to watch our news media parrot the lines the DNC goves them is sickening. It is obvious when they repeat the exact same phrase over and over per show that you hear multiple DNC members say. They donít even use synonyms, because they figure if they repeat the same phrase over and over, it will burn into someoneís conscience. The current field for the DNC is even worse than Saudi/China/Russian-paid Hillary. Funny how her charity dried up btw when she didnít have influence to peddle. Now, we turn our eyes towards Biden who made $8M from corrupt Ukrainians and has horrible policies, Bernie who is a commie, Warren who is a pathological liar and a commie, and Buttigieg who is well thought but damaged goods in the black community.

Trump has rebuilt an American economy that shouldíve have returned much faster if Obama had gotten his foot off the brake with his liberal policies. Trump had the balls to go to economic war with everyone so that Americans donít have to subsidize the rest of the world and its showing with historically low unemployment, historically high labor participation, wages are increasing exponentially (even tho Dems would have u believe that only government could force wages higher), Trump expanded paid maternity, reformed our justice system to shorten sentences for non-violent offenders, hit Iran right where it hurts, and other things I canít rememeber off the too of my head.

But what we get from Dems is a hurried impeachment that developed zero admissible facts in court with two charges of impeachment that are hardly crimes, let alone impeachable, and a Speaker who claimed rushing the process was essential for national security only to stop the process for a month, likely to screw over Bernie and Warren. As an attorney, I can tell you that this impeachment rises to such a level that Schiff and his crew should be disbarred. It is gross misconduct. Theyíre ultimately claiming that if you admit to being corrupt on TV like Biden did, or hell even if there was a suspicion of illegal activities, you arenít allowed to investigate them if the target is a political opponent. Only Washington politicians could come up with something so asinine to protect themselves... The same politicians who tell literally everyone else and all other federal employees they have to be subject to Obamacare, but not them...they grt their own special insurance.

I donít like Trump. Heís the stereotypical 80s country club bad guy, but his policies are better than any other candidate the Dems can find. Funny how they slander one of the most legitimate candidates in Tulsi Gabbard... That party is just nasty, and theyíre hacked emails exposed them in 2016 to show how overtly racist and corrupt they were. The only reason they label Trump racist or a Russian asset is because the polls tell them those labels resonate best, not because the Dems have policies worth anything...

Btw, how do you deal with Trudeau...? Lord, the guy blamed the US for that plane getting shot down. Not Iran for continuously provoking us by killing our soldiers. Not Iran for irresponsibly firing the missiles. Not Iran for allowing the plane to depart in the first place. No, he planes the US who finally took a stand to reprimand them for decades of horrible deeds. Heís be a horrible parent...

If youíre watching our politics, watch how Dems always speak in terms or emotions and feelings or use charged words. Then, look at the RNC that talks in terms of laws, rules, objectivity... Trumpís an outlier in that regard, but look at the RNC generally. They dont say ďwe believe xyz should happen.Ē They say it is or it isnít, which is how the law and fact finding works...Feelings muddies the water so people stay emotional and keep people in power who have no solutions. When you hear Dems talk about white privilege or the racist social structure that burdens minorities, youíre hearing people build a narrative so that folks keep voting for them...its a narrative similar to alien conspiracy theorists except the basis of the issue is more socially acceptable. But, it simply isnít true, and all you have to do is look to the Asian, Indian, and born-in-Africa communities to understand that. These three groups excel in this country and disproportionately are represented in the field of medicine in a good way, because America provides everything you need to succeed regardless of color. You just have to be willing to go get it, though I understand thatís difficult when entire communities have broken families, but thatís a matter of personal responsibility and accountability, not the problem of a ďracistĒ system where people who are equally minorities can succeed. The failing communities look too often to government to solve their problems...the other minority communities historically distrust government and proactively take action and succeed.

Politics is a dirty business but we needed someone like Trump to have a street brawl with these folks to make them show their true colors. Itís clear as day if you pay attention that the Dems have no real answers and make everything a political point or show. Meanwhile, theyíre scared as hell, because Trump is polling almost three times higher with the black community as any Republican candidate in modern history. That seriously undercuts the DNC base. If that holds, the DNC is gonna get wiped out, so theyíre just building campaign sound bites with their impeachment game that they can show on TV nextvyear. Thatís how atrocious and offensive this is. Itís also comical to watch a Dem talk about national security. Theyre the anti-security party - remove military funding, refuse to charge criminals or put them in jail, open borders... Thereís a credibility problem if ur a Dem and trying to cry about national security.

Anyway, thereís a splashdown to answer your question. When Dems get serious about heloing the country, maybe Iíll consider their candidate. Until then, not a chance... And, itís nothing to do with partisan politics...itís everything to do with actual policies that help the country versus the crap put forth by Dems. If they had a good idea, Iíd support it, but itís few and far between. They simply canít govern.
I can live with Biden or even Bloomberg (not that he has a chance), but the rest are too far left and just trying to buy votes. And since when did we have to ďlikeĒ politicians we support as people? Thatís such a juvenile way of thinking. I like Obama as a person more than Trump, but Iím still voting for Trump every single time.
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  #78  
Old 01-27-2020, 07:38 AM
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Like partisan impeachments with no basis for the impeachment itself?
This line does interest me.

How do people react if a smoking gun comes out that Trump did in fact do exactly what he is accused of (which I think we can all admit is a stone cold certainty). He has now used his power and office to pressure a desperate, foreign ally to announce an investigation into a direct political opponent to knee cap his campaign.
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  #79  
Old 01-27-2020, 12:03 PM
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This line does interest me.

How do people react if a smoking gun comes out that Trump did in fact do exactly what he is accused of (which I think we can all admit is a stone cold certainty). He has now used his power and office to pressure a desperate, foreign ally to announce an investigation into a direct political opponent to knee cap his campaign.
So then Biden shouldn't be running either correct, since he is on tape admitting to doing the exact same thing?
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  #80  
Old 01-27-2020, 01:54 PM
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So then Biden shouldn't be running either correct, since he is on tape admitting to doing the exact same thing?
Ding Ding Ding...we have a winner!
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  #81  
Old 01-27-2020, 02:43 PM
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So then Biden shouldn't be running either correct, since he is on tape admitting to doing the exact same thing?
I completely agree. Iíll go further. Both of them should be thrown in jail. A crimes a crime. But Iím sure some still wonít see it that way. Trump should impeached, Biden should be disqualified, and Pence, Walsh, whoever should have to run against whoever the democratic elect is. This IS whatís best for the country. We want to bring up the constitution and honor it. Well, letís honor it. Even if it means we fall into a small recession.
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  #82  
Old 01-27-2020, 03:13 PM
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I completely agree. Iíll go further. Both of them should be thrown in jail. A crimes a crime. But Iím sure some still wonít see it that way. Trump should impeached, Biden should be disqualified, and Pence, Walsh, whoever should have to run against whoever the democratic elect is. This IS whatís best for the country. We want to bring up the constitution and honor it. Well, letís honor it. Even if it means we fall into a small recession.
Fair point. But while Biden has said himself what he's done, Trump has denied it. I'm not naive enough to think it couldn't have happened, but there is so far no compelling evidence that makes it 100% certain.

Also to be technical, Trump has been impeached, he just hasn't been convicted yet.

What makes this harder is that the people who would/should have the evidence of wrongdoing would seemingly rather profit from it than use it.

"I have proof of what Trump did, read about it in my book that comes out next month" doesn't exactly leave me feeling confident about that source.
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  #83  
Old 01-27-2020, 03:59 PM
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I completely agree. Iíll go further. Both of them should be thrown in jail. A crimes a crime. But Iím sure some still wonít see it that way. Trump should impeached, Biden should be disqualified, and Pence, Walsh, whoever should have to run against whoever the democratic elect is. This IS whatís best for the country. We want to bring up the constitution and honor it. Well, letís honor it. Even if it means we fall into a small recession.
Is there any doubt that both Biden and Trump have financially benefited from being in public office? Is there also any doubt that they both pushed the ethical limits to use their offices to ensure that their families benefited financially as well?
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  #84  
Old 01-27-2020, 05:20 PM
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So then Biden shouldn't be running either correct, since he is on tape admitting to doing the exact same thing?
Biden is on record pushing out the old prosecutor which followed US and EU policy? Or was there something else, genuine questions.

Trump is what.., following Guiliani's crackpot server claims and intelligence agencies verified false info about Ukraine, nor Russia, being the source of election meddling.
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  #85  
Old 01-27-2020, 05:22 PM
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Fair point. But while Biden has said himself what he's done, Trump has denied it. I'm not naive enough to think it couldn't have happened, but there is so far no compelling evidence that makes it 100% certain.

Also to be technical, Trump has been impeached, he just hasn't been convicted yet.

What makes this harder is that the people who would/should have the evidence of wrongdoing would seemingly rather profit from it than use it.

"I have proof of what Trump did, read about it in my book that comes out next month" doesn't exactly leave me feeling confident about that source.
I believe in the past you said you were a cop(?)and understand corruption so Iíll go with this. After countless indictments of Trumps friends, testimony by not only people opposing Trump but people he assigned to office or has been in bed with for many years(Giuliani & Mulvaney), his legal team, along with him saying, ďhe did it, so what,Ē the timing of aid to Ukraine, the countless attacks on anyone and everyone not named Putin, the countless lies(over 1,000 and counting)and not to mention he has adviced all his cabinet members to NOT cooperate with anyone or any supeonas. I donít know what else to say. Itís a moot point and not worth arguing at this point. Itís as if people wanted Trump to specifically say Quid Pro Quo, as if this guy has any higher vocabulary than a fourth grader. Itís just crazy to me. Again, Iím in complete favor of Biden bowing out or being thrown in jail also. Iím an equal punisher for anyone who breaks the law.
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  #86  
Old 01-27-2020, 06:58 PM
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I believe in the past you said you were a cop(?)and understand corruption so Iíll go with this. After countless indictments of Trumps friends, testimony by not only people opposing Trump but people he assigned to office or has been in bed with for many years(Giuliani & Mulvaney), his legal team, along with him saying, ďhe did it, so what,Ē the timing of aid to Ukraine, the countless attacks on anyone and everyone not named Putin, the countless lies(over 1,000 and counting)and not to mention he has adviced all his cabinet members to NOT cooperate with anyone or any supeonas. I donít know what else to say. Itís a moot point and not worth arguing at this point. Itís as if people wanted Trump to specifically say Quid Pro Quo, as if this guy has any higher vocabulary than a fourth grader. Itís just crazy to me. Again, Iím in complete favor of Biden bowing out or being thrown in jail also. Iím an equal punisher for anyone who breaks the law.
Not a cop.

I don't disagree with anything that you said. Is it highly likely that Trump did something along the lines of what he was impeached for? I'd say sure, that is probably highly likely.

But this is America and highly likely doesn't get you convicted or expelled from the Presidency.

Not that it matters if you vote Democratic or Republican, but Obama did many of the same things with the gun running scandal came up, among others. Told everyone not to cooperate with the investigations or provide anything. That was wrong too, but suddenly Democrats don't feel that way.

I'd love a 100% corruption free government. I'd also like a unicorn and $100,000,000.

I didn't not vote for Obama because he was corrupt, I didn't vote for him because I didn't agree with his policies. Trump might be corrupt, but I agree more with the Republican agenda, so I'll vote for him again.

If we could get rid of corruption and have candidates that had clear histories, that'd be great. But between the 8 Dems running, do any not have a scandal or two already? Same with most Repubs when they run. Just a sad state of affairs, I just tend to look past "politics" and vote on issues.
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Old 01-27-2020, 07:58 PM
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Not a cop.

I don't disagree with anything that you said. Is it highly likely that Trump did something along the lines of what he was impeached for? I'd say sure, that is probably highly likely.

But this is America and highly likely doesn't get you convicted or expelled from the Presidency.

Not that it matters if you vote Democratic or Republican, but Obama did many of the same things with the gun running scandal came up, among others. Told everyone not to cooperate with the investigations or provide anything. That was wrong too, but suddenly Democrats don't feel that way.

I'd love a 100% corruption free government. I'd also like a unicorn and $100,000,000.

I didn't not vote for Obama because he was corrupt, I didn't vote for him because I didn't agree with his policies. Trump might be corrupt, but I agree more with the Republican agenda, so I'll vote for him again.

If we could get rid of corruption and have candidates that had clear histories, that'd be great. But between the 8 Dems running, do any not have a scandal or two already? Same with most Repubs when they run. Just a sad state of affairs, I just tend to look past "politics" and vote on issues.

I agree with you on a lot here. Especially voting on the issues that fit your agenda. Thatís whatís great about America.
I will say, I havenít dove deep into all the politicals here, but does Andrew Yang have any major scandals? I enjoy his candor and he seems knowledgeable about the economy and the future. Just a thought. Not sure of his opinion on abortion, gun rights etc.
But I will say I have put some thought into abortion recently. Does anyone really care if someone has an abortion? Truly...Iím not out there marching one way or the other. So can I really be that phased if the law is upheld or not. Iím sure most people are in my boat. Most have strong opinions on the matter but most could care less or donít give a thought about it unless itís talked about one way or the other. Anywho...
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  #88  
Old 01-27-2020, 08:12 PM
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I agree with you on a lot here. Especially voting on the issues that fit your agenda. Thatís whatís great about America.
I will say, I havenít dove deep into all the politicals here, but does Andrew Yang have any major scandals? I enjoy his candor and he seems knowledgeable about the economy and the future. Just a thought. Not sure of his opinion on abortion, gun rights etc.
But I will say I have put some thought into abortion recently. Does anyone really care if someone has an abortion? Truly...Iím not out there marching one way or the other. So can I really be that phased if the law is upheld or not. Iím sure most people are in my boat. Most have strong opinions on the matter but most could care less or donít give a thought about it unless itís talked about one way or the other. Anywho...
Yang is probably scandal free. So might be a few others, I guess I just didn't count them as they don't have a chance unless something really dramatic happens.

I do vote on abortion. Other than the life lost, no, generally speaking abortion doesn't hurt me anymore than a lot of different things. But to me, it is more the slippery slope that abortion brings and the mentality that goes with it.

Clearly you can argue when life begins and we don't really need to debate that. I believe something, a pro-choicer will believe something else and we probably will never agree, fine.

My big issue is when does it stop? Before 1973 and Roe V Wade, only 1 state allowed abortions for general reasons. A few allowed it for rape and incest and 30 or so didn't allow it at all.

Again, I'm against it altogether, but I can at least see the "rape and incest" argument. But it didn't stop there. Slowly more states allowed general abortions, but only in the first trimester. Then it was the second trimester. Now states are allowing them up until the point of birth and some argue (or even perform) that abortions are ok shortly after birth if the situation deems it necessary.

So where does it stop? In 45 years we've gone from essentially extremely limited situations to up to and sometimes after birth. As crazy as it sounds (and 45 years ago abortions at birth was pretty crazy), what is next? "Abortions" to the age of 1? "Abortions" if you find a birth defect at 3? "Abortions" for the elderly who can't support themselves? Etc. etc.

Again, probably crazy, but a whole lot of Germans thought killing Jews was a good idea at the time, so it isn't like it'd be the worst idea humans have ever come up with.
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  #89  
Old 01-27-2020, 08:20 PM
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I didn't not vote for Obama because he was corrupt, I didn't vote for him because I didn't agree with his policies. Trump might be corrupt, but I agree more with the Republican agenda, so I'll vote for him again.
Trump is an embarrassment. The stuff he tweets out for the world to see is pathetic.
He tweets exactly like I post here when I'm drunk, pathetic nonsense and bullshit.
How do you ignore that part of him?
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Old 01-27-2020, 08:34 PM
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Trump is an embarrassment. The stuff he tweets out for the world to see is pathetic.
He tweets exactly like I post here when I'm drunk, pathetic nonsense and bullshit.
How do you ignore that part of him?
I don't ignore it. If there was a better option, with a legitimate chance of winning, who I was comfortable voting for, I'd do it.

As a union employee, there are parts of the Democratic platform that I agree with. But there is a whole lot more that I don't agree with and couldn't vote for it good conscience.

I agree that Trump's ramblings are unbecoming of the office of President.
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  #91  
Old 01-27-2020, 10:42 PM
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Trump is an embarrassment. The stuff he tweets out for the world to see is pathetic.
He tweets exactly like I post here when I'm drunk, pathetic nonsense and bullshit.
How do you ignore that part of him?
Thus is probably one od the funniest things about Trump...his tweets or more precisely the reaction he gets from people about them. Its hilarious that people lose their damn mind about a few lines, where he's clearly trolling. In the meantime while folks are upset about a tweet, his administration is enacting policy and appointing judges left and right. Look squirrel...
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Old 01-28-2020, 03:07 PM
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Thus is probably one od the funniest things about Trump...his tweets or more precisely the reaction he gets from people about them. Its hilarious that people lose their damn mind about a few lines, where he's clearly trolling. In the meantime while folks are upset about a tweet, his administration is enacting policy and appointing judges left and right. Look squirrel...
Our President is a troll? His tweets are a lot more than trolling. He comes off like an entitled baby and its embarrassing.
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Old 01-28-2020, 04:47 PM
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This line does interest me.

How do people react if a smoking gun comes out that Trump did in fact do exactly what he is accused of (which I think we can all admit is a stone cold certainty). He has now used his power and office to pressure a desperate, foreign ally to announce an investigation into a direct political opponent to knee cap his campaign.
1) That's his constitutional prerogative as President. What the hell do you think Ben Franklin, Andrew Jackson, Teddy Roosevelt, etc. did to foreign nations as President?

2) There is ZERO evidence the investigation was intended to knee cap a campaign. Those are all conclusory asssumptions by the Dems. Instead, the investigation is into an American citizen acting corruptly. He's the executive branch. Again, his prerogative to enforce our laws.

3) Even if all of that is true, Alan Dershowitz hit the nail on the head - it's still not grounds for an impeachment conviction. And, if so decided, would destroy the office of the Presidency for all future purposes. The separation of powers between the Executive Branch and Legislative Branch would no longer exist.

Personally, ignoring all of that, it comes back to this for me...Trump is a dbag, but his policies are on point, generally. At least moreso than his opponents. Would I prefer Nikki Haley in there, someone who has the same policies but acts like a professional? Yes. But that's not what we have. Gotta play the hand you're dealt and there are zero Dems that I would trust with our country at the moment. Mayyybe Tulsi... Mayyyybe Bloomberg...but the fatal flaw in Bloomberg is all of his apologizing, so doubtful for me.

You know, the Dem I would vote for in heartbeat would be Joe Manchin. I don't know why he won't run. Probably knows the Puritans on the left would destroy him even though he's a normal guy with common sense policies...Old School Southern Democrat basically.
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Old 01-28-2020, 04:55 PM
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I have to add this, btw... You don't want to be kneecapped...? Don't do illegal sh*t...
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Old 01-28-2020, 05:08 PM
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What I find amazing is most people believe that Trump did something. But instead of honor the constitution they rather stick to their political agenda. Thatís crazy to me. Wrong is wrong. If you want your agenda pushed, then find the right guy who doesnít break the law.

In the long run, when the next dbag dem gets into office, and he decides to do whatever he pleases, the right will have absolutely no grounds to stand on by backing this president who has basically wiped his azz with the constitution.

Bill Maher said it best, if Biden is elected drooling, shitting in his diaper walking out giving speeches with no pants on, the left is going to say tough shyt after everything the right turned its cheek on.
Which is sad, really...
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Old 01-28-2020, 05:43 PM
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What I find amazing is most people believe that Trump did something. But instead of honor the constitution they rather stick to their political agenda. Thatís crazy to me. Wrong is wrong. If you want your agenda pushed, then find the right guy who doesnít break the law.

In the long run, when the next dbag dem gets into office, and he decides to do whatever he pleases, the right will have absolutely no grounds to stand on by backing this president who has basically wiped his azz with the constitution.

Bill Maher said it best, if Biden is elected drooling, shitting in his diaper walking out giving speeches with no pants on, the left is going to say tough shyt after everything the right turned its cheek on.
Which is sad, really...
Legally, there is a difference between what is constitutional, what is unconstitutional, what is impeachable, what isn't impeachable... This is where the general public gets taken advantage of by politicians, specifically the left at the moment...The general public doesn't know the law or understand it. The Dems are seeking talking points and campaign ads because they know fully that these actions aren't impeachable and know that Trump will be acquitted, but they're making recorded sound bites and videos for campaign season.
That's all they're doing, and what's particularly egregious is that Adam Schiff who is an attorney who's oath is to uphold the law, is leading the charge. He should be disbarred.

There are processes and procedures in place to ensure fair trials that err on the side of the defendant and Schiff has completely ignored them. It's as unpatriotic and banana republic as it gets. He didn't give two sh**s about the truth. If he did, he would've let Republicans call their witnesses privately in the secret meetings, too, but he didn't, because he didn't care. There is no sense of fairness with these guys...no sense of truth... So, why should I care what happens, now?

Our procedures and law harken back to England and its tyranny. There are reasons why we stick so soundly to the law and its procedures...reasons that are bigger than whether somebody was accused of doing something right or wrong. Wrong has varying levels under our legal system with varying levels of punishment. What Trump did, even if wrong, does not rise to the level of impeachable. If it does, the future is f***ed for this country.
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Old 01-28-2020, 05:58 PM
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1) That's his constitutional prerogative as President. What the hell do you think Ben Franklin, Andrew Jackson, Teddy Roosevelt, etc. did to foreign nations as President?

2) There is ZERO evidence the investigation was intended to knee cap a campaign. Those are all conclusory asssumptions by the Dems. Instead, the investigation is into an American citizen acting corruptly. He's the executive branch. Again, his prerogative to enforce our laws.

3) Even if all of that is true, Alan Dershowitz hit the nail on the head - it's still not grounds for an impeachment conviction. And, if so decided, would destroy the office of the Presidency for all future purposes. The separation of powers between the Executive Branch and Legislative Branch would no longer exist.

Personally, ignoring all of that, it comes back to this for me...Trump is a dbag, but his policies are on point, generally. At least moreso than his opponents. Would I prefer Nikki Haley in there, someone who has the same policies but acts like a professional? Yes. But that's not what we have. Gotta play the hand you're dealt and there are zero Dems that I would trust with our country at the moment. Mayyybe Tulsi... Mayyyybe Bloomberg...but the fatal flaw in Bloomberg is all of his apologizing, so doubtful for me.

You know, the Dem I would vote for in heartbeat would be Joe Manchin. I don't know why he won't run. Probably knows the Puritans on the left would destroy him even though he's a normal guy with common sense policies...Old School Southern Democrat basically.
President Ben Franklin?
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  #98  
Old 01-28-2020, 06:24 PM
irishwavend's Avatar
irishwavend irishwavend is offline
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Originally Posted by jessemoore97 View Post
President Ben Franklin?
Hahahahahaha... Good point. I think I was recalling Franklin's dealings in Europe. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!?!?!?!?!
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  #99  
Old 01-28-2020, 08:28 PM
jbrown_9999 jbrown_9999 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tenacious_ND View Post
Our President is a troll? His tweets are a lot more than trolling. He comes off like an entitled baby and its embarrassing.
Unfortunately, while Trump may be among the most extreme, there are a fair number of politicians in both parties who act like entitled babies.
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Old 01-28-2020, 10:11 PM
Soko Soko is offline
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There are processes and procedures in place to ensure fair trials that err on the side of the defendant and Schiff has completely ignored them. It's as unpatriotic and banana republic as it gets. He didn't give two sh**s about the truth. If he did, he would've let Republicans call their witnesses privately in the secret meetings, too, but he didn't, because he didn't care. There is no sense of fairness with these guys...no sense of truth... So, why should I care what happens, now?

There is an opportunity now to hear from direct witnesses. Lets hear them. Those witnesses all refused to testify under House investigations btw. They were called and refused to go. Trump is flat out lying saying Bolton was not called.

If you think blackmailing allied foreign governments under siege from a hostile enemy to hold a sham press conference into your political rival is above board then I don't know what level we are at. Chris Wallace nailed Dershowitz's flip flop on the matter regarding what rises to an impeachable offense. He claims he's done some more reading since the last trial!! Give me a break. Lindsey Graham saying directly that it is not a requirement to commit a crime to be impeached but now the roles are reversed. It's borderline comical.
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