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Old 12-31-2019, 05:48 PM
ELDER06 ELDER06 is offline
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Default OC candidates

Letís get an official discussion going. Obviously, Rees is a leading candidate, but have any other names emerged?
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Old 12-31-2019, 05:54 PM
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Harry h just got fired by the bears. Would he come back ? Would he give BK a three year commitment
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Old 12-31-2019, 05:59 PM
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While Trubisky gets a vote of confidence, offensive coordinator Mark Helfrich, offensive line coach Harry Hiestand, tight ends coach Kevin Gilbride and assistant special teams coach Brock Olivo have been fired, a source confirmed to ESPN. The moves were first reported by The Athletic.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...b-starter-2020
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Old 12-31-2019, 06:36 PM
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Old 12-31-2019, 07:03 PM
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Would probably take the QB coach spot, too. Would we really fire Rees? Or where would we assign him? Either way, Helfrich is a hard read.
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Old 12-31-2019, 07:18 PM
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Would probably take the QB coach spot, too. Would we really fire Rees? Or where would we assign him? Either way, Helfrich is a hard read.
No, that would not happen. Helfrich would need to accept a role like OC/mentor even Co-OC and coach tight ends or something. Remember he is the one that got fired.
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Old 12-31-2019, 07:42 PM
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No, that would not happen. Helfrich would need to accept a role like OC/mentor even Co-OC and coach tight ends or something. Remember he is the one that got fired.
I get that and don't totally disagree. But he's only ever been QB coach, and that's where he seems to have really made his biggest impacts on his career (other than Trubiskey, of course). So, putting him somewhere else is likely just throwing away that position, too. Unless we think that Tommy can coach TE's and be Co-OC? But, does that set him back, too, and all these set-backs for only a questionable at best "upgrade" anywhere?
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Old 12-31-2019, 07:56 PM
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I get that and don't totally disagree. But he's only ever been QB coach, and that's where he seems to have really made his biggest impacts on his career (other than Trubiskey, of course). So, putting him somewhere else is likely just throwing away that position, too. Unless we think that Tommy can coach TE's and be Co-OC? But, does that set him back, too, and all these set-backs for only a questionable at best "upgrade" anywhere?

Who knows some coach could Leave either a college job that Helfrich wants or create a pro offensive coordinator that helfrich fits.

I don't really see a scenario where Rees is not Ian's coach.

The direct conclusion that most will jump too is Hiestand to OL and Quinn to TE's

BUT I'm not sure Kelly wants to go back to the future.
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Old 12-31-2019, 10:26 PM
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The direct conclusion that most will jump too is Hiestand to OL and Quinn to TE's

BUT I'm not sure Kelly wants to go back to the future.

I only can hope that he does. He talks about firing a guy in his wedding, so a ding to Quinn (=> TEs) would put CBK's $ where his mouth is.
Quinn may be adequate and comfortable, but he isn't much more than 60% of Harry (who, BTW, turned out to be a HELL of a recruiter).
No tears for Jeff, CBK took good care of him since he flamed out in Buffalo, and the talent (much of which HH recruited) counterbalanced the adequate coaching and kept the OL from having a disappointing year. Just MHO.

Brian, Happy New Year and all the best in 2020 to you and all on this great board.
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Old 12-31-2019, 10:40 PM
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Happy New Year to you too Wharton!

Bringing Harry back would be fine. We'll see in the next week or two if that is what Kelly wants to do, it makes sense to me.
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Old 12-31-2019, 11:38 PM
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Am I crazy to think that ND should bring back Tony Alford for the OC!? He is absolute dog on the recruiting trail. He can pitch J.K Dobbins, Zeke etc. learned from Urban and Day. He knows ND and believed to part ways with ND on good terms? What do you guys think?
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Old 01-01-2020, 12:42 AM
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Am I crazy to think that ND should bring back Tony Alford for the OC!? He is absolute dog on the recruiting trail. He can pitch J.K Dobbins, Zeke etc. learned from Urban and Day. He knows ND and believed to part ways with ND on good terms? What do you guys think?
From some of the things I've read it sounds like some bridges were burned there when alfrod jumped to osu. I could be very wrong but sounds bk will not be hiring him anytime soon.

If bk is true to his word that nd should be an elite program with elite talent and not settle then they should a legit offensive line coach.
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Old 01-01-2020, 02:02 PM
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I watched the Bears all year and Helfrich's offense was dink and dunk just like Kelly's. I want someone who is going to bring a reliable- and I mean can run on anybody- running game back to ND along with a strong passing game. My guess is the Kelly won't ever deviate from dink and dunk though and won't bring anybody in who would bring a big change to his offense.
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Old 01-01-2020, 02:18 PM
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I watched the Bears all year and Helfrich's offense was dink and dunk just like Kelly's. I want someone who is going to bring a reliable- and I mean can run on anybody- running game back to ND along with a strong passing game. My guess is the Kelly won't ever deviate from dink and dunk though and won't bring anybody in who would bring a big change to his offense.
Fair point, but the commonality between those two offenses is that both QB's aren't capable of consistently throwing it downfield.

Kelly's offense at Cincy was based on downfield throws and the ability to run of the space those throw gave you.

I don't think it is coincidence that the three best downfield passers ND has had under Kelly, Wimbush, Golson and Kizer, also produced the three best teams in terms of yards per carry.

When a defense doesn't have to respect you throwing it over the top, it doesn't just make passing harder, it brings the safeties into the box and makes the run game harder as well.
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Old 01-01-2020, 03:48 PM
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Donít want Helfrich at OC. Would LOVE to get HH back.
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Old 01-01-2020, 03:52 PM
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Fair point, but the commonality between those two offenses is that both QB's aren't capable of consistently throwing it downfield.

Kelly's offense at Cincy was based on downfield throws and the ability to run of the space those throw gave you.

I don't think it is coincidence that the three best downfield passers ND has had under Kelly, Wimbush, Golson and Kizer, also produced the three best teams in terms of yards per carry.

When a defense doesn't have to respect you throwing it over the top, it doesn't just make passing harder, it brings the safeties into the box and makes the run game harder as well.
I saw those BK Offenses in Cincy, the QBs at Cincy couldnít be more difft than the ones at ND. Pike and Collaros were big pocket passers with limited mobility. I think running ability (not necessarily athleticism) is an overrated feature of QBs. Neither Lawrence or Burrow are blazers, but they can sling the ball all over the field with accuracy. To me, if a QB isnít accurate, heís not worth a damn.
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Old 01-02-2020, 01:49 AM
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To me, if a QB isnít accurate, heís not worth a damn.[/quote]

Agreed - Bill Walsh said that (far and away) the most important thing in judging / picking a QB was accuracy... think Montana and Young - from memory, neither was a blazer, but their scalpel like accuracy won. Good point on the Cincy QBs as well.
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Old 01-02-2020, 01:17 PM
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Fair point, but the commonality between those two offenses is that both QB's aren't capable of consistently throwing it downfield.

Kelly's offense at Cincy was based on downfield throws and the ability to run of the space those throw gave you.

I don't think it is coincidence that the three best downfield passers ND has had under Kelly, Wimbush, Golson and Kizer, also produced the three best teams in terms of yards per carry.

When a defense doesn't have to respect you throwing it over the top, it doesn't just make passing harder, it brings the safeties into the box and makes the run game harder as well.
I agree completely. Book does remind me of Trubisky, a semi mobile QB that can't stretch the field. I am baffled that Kelly keeps recruiting so many small QB's with average arms and without Deshaun Watson type speed. I hope the QB position is up for grabs and Kelly gives Phil, the one exception if he doesn't transfer, a real chance. We have to be able to stretch the field.
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Old 01-02-2020, 01:21 PM
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To me, if a QB isnít accurate, heís not worth a damn.
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Agreed - Bill Walsh said that (far and away) the most important thing in judging / picking a QB was accuracy... think Montana and Young - from memory, neither was a blazer, but their scalpel like accuracy won. Good point on the Cincy QBs as well
Yeah, but San Francisco had Roger Craig and could always run the ball. So, defenses had to respect the running game and his ability to catch the ball out of the backfield. An accurate short passer with no running game, which is what we have every time we face an elite defense, is limited in its ability to stress defenses all around the field.
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Old 01-02-2020, 01:25 PM
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I watched the Bears all year and Helfrich's offense was dink and dunk just like Kelly's. I want someone who is going to bring a reliable- and I mean can run on anybody- running game back to ND along with a strong passing game. My guess is the Kelly won't ever deviate from dink and dunk though and won't bring anybody in who would bring a big change to his offense.
Helfrich didn't design the offense in Chicago or call the plays there. Nagy did both. Helfrich was tasked with installing the plays and offense that Nagy wanted him to and he didn't have time to do himself as head coach. It's a tough situation to try and judge a coach by. Same for a Nick Sirianni for the Colts. It's Reich's offense, but he tasked Sirianni with spending the time to install his offense so that Reich can coach the overall team during the week.
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Old 01-02-2020, 01:41 PM
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I watched the Bears all year and Helfrich's offense was dink and dunk just like Kelly's. I want someone who is going to bring a reliable- and I mean can run on anybody- running game back to ND along with a strong passing game. My guess is the Kelly won't ever deviate from dink and dunk though and won't bring anybody in who would bring a big change to his offense.
Funny how one year of dink and dunk suddenly means that is ND's MO.

Look, as long as Book is the QB, they are going to roll out an offense that is geared towards his strengths (or better stated, geared away from his weaknesses) so you are going to get an offense that looks a lot like what we saw in 2019 (with hopefully a better running game going forward).

In short, the Dink and Dunk offense was (is) a direct result of an offense without a great running game and QB that doesn't have an elite arm and isn't incredibly accurate...so you get an offense with shorter and higher percentage passes. This is not changing in 2020 regardless of who ND places at OC.
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Old 01-02-2020, 02:10 PM
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Funny how one year of dink and dunk suddenly means that is ND's MO.

Look, as long as Book is the QB, they are going to roll out an offense that is geared towards his strengths (or better stated, geared away from his weaknesses) so you are going to get an offense that looks a lot like what we saw in 2019 (with hopefully a better running game going forward).

In short, the Dink and Dunk offense was (is) a direct result of an offense without a great running game and QB that doesn't have an elite arm and isn't incredibly accurate...so you get an offense with shorter and higher percentage passes. This is not changing in 2020 regardless of who ND places at OC.
With one two year period exception, I think dink and dunk has been Kelly's MO the entire time he's been at ND. The only QB with a big arm was Kizer and he had Fuller. Without Fuller, I'll bet Kizer would have dinked and dunked as well. Other than those two guys, Kelly has not recruited anybody that would allow him to stretch the field like elite teams do. So, the question is: Is it Kelly's offense that dictates personnel, or his recruiting dictating his offensive style?

Otherwise, I agree completely in what you said about needing a great running game and having a QB with an average arm, but doubt we'll have a consistent running game when we face Clemson unless we have a new OC and O-Line coach who emphasize it as a core value and work on it and Kelly stays out of the way.

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Old 01-02-2020, 03:07 PM
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With one two year period exception, I think dink and dunk has been Kelly's MO the entire time he's been at ND. The only QB with a big arm was Kizer and he had Fuller. Without Fuller, I'll bet Kizer would have dinked and dunked as well. Other than those two guys, Kelly has not recruited anybody that would allow him to stretch the field like elite teams do. So, the question is: Is it Kelly's offense that dictates personnel, or his recruiting dictating his offensive style?

Otherwise, I agree completely in what you said about needing a great running game and having a QB with an average arm, but doubt we'll have a consistent running game when we face Clemson unless we have a new OC and O-Line coach who emphasize it as a core value and work on it and Kelly stays out of the way.

I always thought Kellyís offense was slow big chunk plays that were hit and miss. Usually miss versus elite teams because of their pass rush. The sink and dunk is a product of Book not wanting to go deep often and settle for what he can see. Short dig and crossing routes.
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Old 01-02-2020, 03:47 PM
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Default Bill Callahan

Thoughts on Bill Callahan as a candidate for OC/OL? If so, then Quinn to TEs if he needs to stay on staff.

No personal knowledge / opinion on Callahan, just saw that he is 1) available and 2) has coached OL for two different NFL teams who had three members get named to Pro Bowl (2008 and 2009 Jets and 2014 Cowboys).

Chicago native who attended a Catholic high school, maybe he has a soft spot for ND?
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Old 01-02-2020, 03:57 PM
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Thoughts on Bill Callahan as a candidate for OC/OL? If so, then Quinn to TEs if he needs to stay on staff.

No personal knowledge / opinion on Callahan, just saw that he is 1) available and 2) has coached OL for two different NFL teams who had three members get named to Pro Bowl (2008 and 2009 Jets and 2014 Cowboys).

Chicago native who attended a Catholic high school, maybe he has a soft spot for ND?
Iíd take him in a heartbeat to coach the OL, but not as the OC.
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