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Old 01-31-2010, 08:32 PM
irishtriplets irishtriplets is offline
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Default Trend for 2010: 2-stars are all the rage...

First time poster, longtime lurker - but I had to post something I found interesting over on Rivals. With all of the discussion about the "low-star" rated prospects for ND, Florida just added a 2* QB in Tyler Murphy (orgininally a *gasp* TEMPLE commit) over the weekend to add to their already impressive class.

While one could certainly make the argument that UF already has their fill of 4 and 5* players for this year's recruiting cycle, it is telling that even the top current college football programs (god that's painful to write) fill their roster with "football players" as opposed to solely relying on ratings from scouting bureaus.

While I too would love a top-5 recruiting class this year, I would gladly fill the roster with great "football players" like a 3* Dion Lewis ('09 - Pitt), a 3* James Laurinaitis ('05 - OSU) or a 3* Darius Walker ('04 - ND).

The new coaching staff seems to get this, and are actively signing kids who want to compete to win versus solely recruiting on the basis of an often hype-based star system. While it may prove unsuccessful for the long-term, it sure does seem like we are heading in the right direction.

Having said all that, here's to hoping we land Powell, Hendersen, Prater, Sharif Floyd, Keenan Allen, Robert Woods....

All kidding aside, I'd be happy with Ioane and James... Go Irish!
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Old 01-31-2010, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by coastereight View Post
Every team usually tries to add a couple projects toward the end of the class. It's smart.
And even more so for a transition class, I would think.
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Old 01-31-2010, 08:39 PM
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Every team usually tries to add a couple projects toward the end of the class. It's smart.
I agree besides i hear 3, 4 and 5 stars are over rated.... I sure cant wait for Florida to fall flat on their faces... Those Fools!
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Old 01-31-2010, 08:42 PM
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I agree besides i hear 3, 4 and 5 stars are over rated.... I sure cant wait for Florida to fall flat on their faces... Those Fools!
Well played, worthy opponent.....
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Old 01-31-2010, 08:42 PM
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Excellent first post!

Welcome to DD Irishtriplets! Glad you decided to join up!
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Old 01-31-2010, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishtriplets View Post
First time poster, longtime lurker - but I had to post something I found interesting over on Rivals. With all of the discussion about the "low-star" rated prospects for ND, Florida just added a 2* QB in Tyler Murphy (orgininally a *gasp* TEMPLE commit) over the weekend to add to their already impressive class.

While one could certainly make the argument that UF already has their fill of 4 and 5* players for this year's recruiting cycle, it is telling that even the top current college football programs (god that's painful to write) fill their roster with "football players" as opposed to solely relying on ratings from scouting bureaus.

While I too would love a top-5 recruiting class this year, I would gladly fill the roster with great "football players" like a 3* Dion Lewis ('09 - Pitt), a 3* James Laurinaitis ('05 - OSU) or a 3* Darius Walker ('04 - ND).

The new coaching staff seems to get this, and are actively signing kids who want to compete to win versus solely recruiting on the basis of an often hype-based star system. While it may prove unsuccessful for the long-term, it sure does seem like we are heading in the right direction.

Having said all that, here's to hoping we land Powell, Hendersen, Prater, Sharif Floyd, Keenan Allen, Robert Woods....

All kidding aside, I'd be happy with Ioane and James... Go Irish!
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Old 01-31-2010, 08:55 PM
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I also am a long time lurker and finally had to sign up after all the uproar about Kelly offering a kid like Heggie. My opinion is give the kid a chance to prove himself before you go tearing him apart. Just because he isnt a 4-5 star recruit doesnt mean hes not going to come in here and produce. From everything ive read, he has a lot of potential and there were a lot of schools interested in him until he had an injury. Tough to judge a kid when you know nothing about him and havent seen any film of him. Im going to trust Brian Kellys decisions and hope he wins more than 6 games per year.
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Old 01-31-2010, 09:00 PM
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Default A small nit with this logic

Quote:
Originally Posted by irishtriplets View Post
First time poster, longtime lurker - but I had to post something I found interesting over on Rivals. With all of the discussion about the "low-star" rated prospects for ND, Florida just added a 2* QB in Tyler Murphy (orgininally a *gasp* TEMPLE commit) over the weekend to add to their already impressive class.

While one could certainly make the argument that UF already has their fill of 4 and 5* players for this year's recruiting cycle, it is telling that even the top current college football programs (god that's painful to write) fill their roster with "football players" as opposed to solely relying on ratings from scouting bureaus.

While I too would love a top-5 recruiting class this year, I would gladly fill the roster with great "football players" like a 3* Dion Lewis ('09 - Pitt), a 3* James Laurinaitis ('05 - OSU) or a 3* Darius Walker ('04 - ND).

The new coaching staff seems to get this, and are actively signing kids who want to compete to win versus solely recruiting on the basis of an often hype-based star system. While it may prove unsuccessful for the long-term, it sure does seem like we are heading in the right direction.

Having said all that, here's to hoping we land Powell, Hendersen, Prater, Sharif Floyd, Keenan Allen, Robert Woods....

All kidding aside, I'd be happy with Ioane and James... Go Irish!
It is probably difficult to suggest to a 4 star or 5 star that signing on behind three other 5 stars who are playing the same position is a good idea. A 2 star knows the odds are against him and he may be happy to be on a good team and hope to transition to another slot. A 5 star is in all likelihood prepping for the NFL and he can't do that from the bench and usually does not wish to switch roles - at least not dramatically.
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Old 01-31-2010, 09:04 PM
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It's easy to judge recent history when Ty was offering this kind of kids and they never panned out. As far as Darius Walker, he was a 3 star for a reason. He had zero breakaway ability. He never should have been the feature back, but a 3rd down back. The kid could never get it out of second gear. When people make comparisons of 2 stars that have turned into something, I have to ask: Do you know how many 2 stars are out there??? A ton! Your chance of having a 2 star turn into something is pretty small. To Kelly's credit, he turned Gilyard and the 2 QBs into something, but how will that translate past the heart of the offense? Can he turn somebody at a less essential position into something? The system is highly responsible for the success of Kelly's 3 2 stars. How will they do in the NFL? The same as Tebow (which is zero productivity as a QB)? Tebow is a product of a system who will be a better coach than NFL player. Remarkably, people still claim Tebow is a great NFL prospect the same way the hyped Jamarcus Russell. Are Gilyard and the 2 QBs going to fall prey to the same undeserved hype? Possibly. You can argue the system makes players look better than they are, the same way Mike Leach has a prolific offense, but very few productive NFL prospects, if any.
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Old 01-31-2010, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McDougaltoDawson View Post
I also am a long time lurker and finally had to sign up after all the uproar about Kelly offering a kid like Heggie. My opinion is give the kid a chance to prove himself before you go tearing him apart. Just because he isnt a 4-5 star recruit doesnt mean hes not going to come in here and produce. From everything ive read, he has a lot of potential and there were a lot of schools interested in him until he had an injury. Tough to judge a kid when you know nothing about him and havent seen any film of him. Im going to trust Brian Kellys decisions and hope he wins more than 6 games per year.
Another good first post!

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  #11  
Old 01-31-2010, 09:13 PM
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Some interesting 2 star recruits that made a name for themselves the past 4 year are Jerry Hughes TCU, Terrance Cody Bama, Sean Weatherspoon Mizzou, Todd Reesing Kansas, Case Keenum Houston and Greg Romeus Pitt. Who knows, Bruce Heggie could make an impact at ND. He has the size and smarts to make an impact.
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Old 01-31-2010, 09:13 PM
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Another good first post!

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Old 01-31-2010, 09:14 PM
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It's easy to judge recent history when Ty was offering this kind of kids and they never panned out. As far as Darius Walker, he was a 3 star for a reason. He had zero breakaway ability. He never should have been the feature back, but a 3rd down back. The kid could never get it out of second gear. When people make comparisons of 2 stars that have turned into something, I have to ask: Do you know how many 2 stars are out there??? A ton! Your chance of having a 2 star turn into something is pretty small. To Kelly's credit, he turned Gilyard and the 2 QBs into something, but how will that translate past the heart of the offense? Can he turn somebody at a less essential position into something? The system is highly responsible for the success of Kelly's 3 2 stars. How will they do in the NFL? The same as Tebow (which is zero productivity as a QB)? Tebow is a product of a system who will be a better coach than NFL player. Remarkably, people still claim Tebow is a great NFL prospect the same way the hyped Jamarcus Russell. Are Gilyard and the 2 QBs going to fall prey to the same undeserved hype? Possibly. You can argue the system makes players look better than they are, the same way Mike Leach has a prolific offense, but very few productive NFL prospects, if any.
Lets just hope BK can develop these players better then Ty did. As for the system makes the players, Alex Smith appears to be a good example of that as well. He NEVER deserved to be the #1 pick.
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Old 01-31-2010, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by McDougaltoDawson View Post
I also am a long time lurker and finally had to sign up after all the uproar about Kelly offering a kid like Heggie. My opinion is give the kid a chance to prove himself before you go tearing him apart. Just because he isnt a 4-5 star recruit doesnt mean hes not going to come in here and produce. From everything ive read, he has a lot of potential and there were a lot of schools interested in him until he had an injury. Tough to judge a kid when you know nothing about him and havent seen any film of him. Im going to trust Brian Kellys decisions and hope he wins more than 6 games per year.
Great post, and your right in the end the bottom line is still the bottom line, just win baby!
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Old 01-31-2010, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by irishwavend View Post
It's easy to judge recent history when Ty was offering this kind of kids and they never panned out. As far as Darius Walker, he was a 3 star for a reason. He had zero breakaway ability. He never should have been the feature back, but a 3rd down back. The kid could never get it out of second gear. When people make comparisons of 2 stars that have turned into something, I have to ask: Do you know how many 2 stars are out there??? A ton! Your chance of having a 2 star turn into something is pretty small. To Kelly's credit, he turned Gilyard and the 2 QBs into something, but how will that translate past the heart of the offense? Can he turn somebody at a less essential position into something? The system is highly responsible for the success of Kelly's 3 2 stars. How will they do in the NFL? The same as Tebow (which is zero productivity as a QB)? Tebow is a product of a system who will be a better coach than NFL player. Remarkably, people still claim Tebow is a great NFL prospect the same way the hyped Jamarcus Russell. Are Gilyard and the 2 QBs going to fall prey to the same undeserved hype? Possibly. You can argue the system makes players look better than they are, the same way Mike Leach has a prolific offense, but very few productive NFL prospects, if any.
I think you're pretty much correct here...It comes down to who has an ability to see talent where others don't. In my experience even professional people miss the mark a lot of the time. Identifying talent is a skill like any other. It seems like we would have enough history to determine if BK can do this or not...How have his projects in total turned out? Calling all industrious DDer's...
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Old 01-31-2010, 10:08 PM
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Every team usually tries to add a couple projects toward the end of the class. It's smart.
This point and the point made by wave that the likelihood of a 2 star recruit panning out is substantially lower then that of a higher rated recruit are very interesting points and very important to consider both independently and together.

The first thing I have to ask is what would be considered a project? Is a project a 4star athlete that is being recruited for a position he has never played, a 3 star that hasn't been playing football for very long, or a 2 star that was "under the radar"? Regardless of the definition of project, there are some interesting attributes if you get the right kind of projects. I think about the BCs and MSUs of the world and they have a lot of recruits that we may consider "project". Yet, they have always been challenging for us to beat.

I think the biggest impact a project has to a football team is desire. Their desire translates to effort and effort translates to everyone else around them having to pick up their level of effort as well. It's these types of kids that I think Charlie Weis failed to recruit consistently over the years. While wave is correct that the likelihood of these guys being an every down difference maker is low, they may end up being an every down difference maker at practice and that is critically important.
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Old 01-31-2010, 10:19 PM
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BTW, I forgot to welcome Irishtriplets and McDougaltoDawson to the board. Thanks for coming on board guys, glad to have you here.
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Old 01-31-2010, 11:57 PM
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Some interesting 2 star recruits that made a name for themselves the past 4 year are Jerry Hughes TCU, Terrance Cody Bama, Sean Weatherspoon Mizzou, Todd Reesing Kansas, Case Keenum Houston and Greg Romeus Pitt. Who knows, Bruce Heggie could make an impact at ND. He has the size and smarts to make an impact.
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:14 AM
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Haha thanks...Just trying to relive the glory days.
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:50 AM
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I can't believe Mount Terrence Cody was only a 2 star
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Old 02-01-2010, 01:13 AM
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Great first post, Trips and welcome

CW never went after these guys for depth. These are the guys with the fire in their bellies to prove they can play with the 4's and 5's
Some of them will shock us and end up being big time contributors; others may fall by the wayside, opening up a scholarship.
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Old 02-01-2010, 01:42 AM
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Besides the fact that Weis couldn't coach, the main reason 2007 turned out so bad was because of Ty's recruiting efforts.....low ranked and less talented recruits. Facts or Facts so let's please stop justifying the recruiting of 0 star no offer recruit.

Last edited by SpeedsterX; 02-01-2010 at 01:53 AM. Reason: corrected that for ya
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Old 02-01-2010, 01:49 AM
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I can't believe Mount Terrence Cody was only a 2 star
He wasn't. Cody was a 3-star on Rivals and a 4-star on Scout.
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Old 02-01-2010, 01:50 AM
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He wasn't. Cody was a 3-star on Rivals and a 4-star on Scout.
Thought I read on here that he was only a 2.
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Old 02-01-2010, 01:56 AM
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Here's the article I found about 2 stars to all-stars....http://cfn.scout.com/2/941080.html
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