Kelly finally gets it

[coltssb]

By this, I mean, for the first time Kelly ran up the score. Even if he didn’t mean too. But he did and he was able to get a lot of guys reps. Reps that build confidence. Reps that help teach. Reps that build character. But most importantly, reps that build depth. Something I’ve been clamoring for for years. That’s what Bama, Clemson, and Ohio St has done for years. It’s also something I wanted BK to do last year more with our linebackers. We all knew that Tranquil and Coney would be gone. But no, he had to play them almost every down of every game. I get loyalty but you need to build depth first. Now we are playing a season of what ifs. What if Bauer was to start, or Simon. Or what if we move Bilal back inside.
Anyways, in the past we would play New Mexico to a close game in the forth. Or Until half time. It’s always been a **** poor performance and a lost game of getting many players in the game. Finally, a plus.
Also, he used those guys in unique ways that fit their talents. End arounds, back shoulders, jet sweeps and in all, didn’t give the full playbook to Georgia. However, it did give Georgia something to think about. Something that we sorely lacked in the past with BK. Now, come Saturday I could be screaming for BK’s head again. But right now in my eyes BK finally understands how to win in this day and age.
My last request from BK would be to be a motivational speaker for this team. Because he lacks this, I would want him to get the ultimate motivational speaker in Lou Holtz to give the pre-game speech before they come out on the field. To me, that would be that deciding edge that this team needs.

[ndmike88]

Motivational speakers do not win football games. The players have to believe that they can win. Going 1-10 on 3rd down tries is not going to beat Georgia.
Until Kelly can show the football world he can win a big game (and not just once) everyone will keep on saying that ND doesn't belong with the big boys and with justification. Beating up on the New Mexico's of the world is meaningless if they keep getting beat in the games that would show the country that the Irish are back.
Does this team have talent? Of course they do. Can this team beat Georgia? On any given Saturday...But
until Kelly can beat the power teams of the college football world, ND will not be taken seriously when talk of the playoffs roll around.
Close but no cigar may be fine for some people but for those of us who remember when Notre Dame was a powerhouse it just isn't good enough.

[ELDER06]

Originally Posted by ndmike88

Motivational speakers do not win football games. The players have to believe that they can win. Going 1-10 on 3rd down tries is not going to beat Georgia.
Until Kelly can show the football world he can win a big game (and not just once) everyone will keep on saying that ND doesn't belong with the big boys and with justification. Beating up on the New Mexico's of the world is meaningless if they keep getting beat in the games that would show the country that the Irish are back.
Does this team have talent? Of course they do. Can this team beat Georgia? On any given Saturday...But
until Kelly can beat the power teams of the college football world, ND will not be taken seriously when talk of the playoffs roll around.
Close but no cigar may be fine for some people but for those of us who remember when Notre Dame was a powerhouse it just isn't good enough.

ND is never going to be a powerhouse again bc they have Academic standards. It doesn’t mean they can’t win a title one day, but they’ll never be what Clemson and Bama are right now.

[JoeBrasco]

Originally Posted by ELDER06

ND is never going to be a powerhouse again bc they have Academic standards. It doesn’t mean they can’t win a title one day, but they’ll never be what Clemson and Bama are right now.

Notice how there was no response to this logical post. The Norte Dame elitists who think the football program will ever be what it was in the current college football world are sorely mistaken.

They all blame the coach which is hilariously stupid.

[ndfanatic78]

Originally Posted by JoeBrasco

Notice how there was no response to this logical post. The Norte Dame elitists who think the football program will ever be what it was in the current college football world are sorely mistaken.

They all blame the coach which is hilariously stupid.

What people seem to forget is that Notre Dame has changed more than the college football world has. Notre Dame did not used to have the restrictions it has today. Knute, Ara, etc.. did not have to deal with what the current coaching staffs have to. If anything the rules surrounding college football have gotten stricter. It’s not nearly the Wild West it used to be but ND has tightened down even more than the rest. ND did not used to be on the level of Stanford or Northwestern as far academics for its student athletes. Whether you agree with what ND has done is up for debate but Notre Dame has put these restrictions on themselves not the changing Landscape of college football. Even Holtz was given the inclusion of suspect students.

[jessemoore97]

Originally Posted by JoeBrasco

Notice how there was no response to this logical post. The Norte Dame elitists who think the football program will ever be what it was in the current college football world are sorely mistaken.

They all blame the coach which is hilariously stupid.

Agree to disagree. Notre Dame can control its destiny, including being great in football. I will place a lot of blame for the failures of the program on the coaches and the administrations that hired them. Two never had head coaching gigs, one with bad resume, another who didn't really want the job and coached and recruited like it, and the most successful is still here but hasn't won a significant game or major bowl. Talent will come if effort and a good product on the field lures them here. However through five, technically four, regimes consistency has been severely lacking in both areas for every coach.

[coltssb]

Originally Posted by jessemoore97

Agree to disagree. Notre Dame can control its destiny, including being great in football. I will place a lot of blame for the failures of the program on the coaches and the administrations that hired them. Two never had head coaching gigs, one with bad resume, another who didn't really want the job and coached and recruited like it, and the most successful is still here but hasn't won a significant game or major bowl. Talent will come if effort and a good product on the field lures them here. However through five, technically four, regimes consistency has been severely lacking in both areas for every coach.

Excellent post. I was going to chime in early but I wrote mainly for other people’s fodder. Anyways, I’m a firm believer that coaching can even disguise bad leadership. The same way a good general can disguise a bad plan. To say that if Saban, Meyer, or Carroll we’re here that ND wouldn’t had one a championship by now is ludicrous. Those guys have the name. The cache. The lure to draw in recruits just by their name alone. BK is getting there. He just needs to turn the corner and win a big game on prime tv.
So to say that coaching has no effect on winning championships is just wrong. But I digress.

[roarcity269]

We’re starting to see Kelly’s approach of finding ND guys come to fruition. I was watching the game Saturday with a buddy unfamiliar with ND and he said, “man you guys have all seniors and juniors playing.” With a few exceptions yes we do. And we will next year and the year after that because Kelly has recruited guys with enough talent to get better and stay four years.
Kelly’s plan of having these core guys that lay the foundation and a few stars here and there is really perfect for ND. We can’t reload every year so having this base is what makes us great.

[echo88]

Originally Posted by coltssb

Excellent post. I was going to chime in early but I wrote mainly for other people’s fodder. Anyways, I’m a firm believer that coaching can even disguise bad leadership. The same way a good general can disguise a bad plan. To say that if Saban, Meyer, or Carroll we’re here that ND wouldn’t had one a championship by now is ludicrous. Those guys have the name. The cache. The lure to draw in recruits just by their name alone. BK is getting there. He just needs to turn the corner and win a big game on prime tv.
So to say that coaching has no effect on winning championships is just wrong. But I digress.

Ehhhhh I dunno about that. Sure, those names could draw the interest from elite recruits, but most of those players wouldn't qualify for admission here. The only truly elite guys we manage to haul in are the ones who genuinely care about education and aren't simply using college as a launching pad for the NFL. Recruits know fully well that, at ND, they are expected to actually attend class and maintain a particular GPA in addition to performing on the field. That's a lot to take on for kids who have likely been coddled, academically, at football factory high schools who churn out top tier talent.

Holtz was afforded academic exceptions and won a title as a result. Meyer asked for academic exceptions as a condition of his contract and was denied. Being crowned the best team in college football will always require having players who would otherwise have no business at institutions of higher learning....and right now (and probably for eternity), ND won't get those kind of players.

For as much hell as I give BK, recently he has managed to keep games against the juggernauts respectable. The fact that we had a nailbiter against UGa in '17 and the fact that Clemson beat Bama by more of a margin in the title game last year should say a lot considering the cards we have to work with.

We should taper expectations and be content with beating the teams with less talent...and performing respectably against the teams who have the aforementioned advantage on the field. Right now, ND offers a terrific education, unrivaled post-grad perks through alumni networks, and the visibility offered through an exclusive independent tv syndicate.

The only gripe I have at the moment stems from being baffled as to why QBs under BK's tutelage tend to remain stagnant/regress with underclassmen out-performing the guys who have been in the system longer. It's probably been the most consistent and obvious issue in BK's career.

[corysold]

Originally Posted by echo88

Ehhhhh I dunno about that. Sure, those names could draw the interest from elite recruits, but most of those players wouldn't qualify for admission here. The only truly elite guys we manage to haul in are the ones who genuinely care about education and aren't simply using college as a launching pad for the NFL. Recruits know fully well that, at ND, they are expected to actually attend class and maintain a particular GPA in addition to performing on the field. That's a lot to take on for kids who have likely been coddled, academically, at football factory high schools who churn out top tier talent.

Holtz was afforded academic exceptions and won a title as a result. Meyer asked for academic exceptions as a condition of his contract and was denied. Being crowned the best team in college football will always require having players who would otherwise have no business at institutions of higher learning....and right now (and probably for eternity), ND won't get those kind of players.

For as much hell as I give BK, recently he has managed to keep games against the juggernauts respectable. The fact that we had a nailbiter against UGa in '17 and the fact that Clemson beat Bama by more of a margin in the title game last year should say a lot considering the cards we have to work with.

We should taper expectations and be content with beating the teams with less talent...and performing respectably against the teams who have the aforementioned advantage on the field. Right now, ND offers a terrific education, unrivaled post-grad perks through alumni networks, and the visibility offered through an exclusive independent tv syndicate.

The only gripe I have at the moment stems from being baffled as to why QBs under BK's tutelage tend to remain stagnant/regress with underclassmen out-performing the guys who have been in the system longer. It's probably been the most consistent and obvious issue in BK's career.

Your last thought on QB's nails the reason ND hasn't won a title. ND is never going to out talent Alabama, Ohio St., Clemson, etc. But, they have/get enough talent that if they can get a generational type QB, they could still win it.

Just look at last year. If you swap Book and Lawrence, ND probably beats Clemson. Our 3* overachiever did what those type of players do against that level. Their 5* superstar did the same. Swap just those two players, and ND is a legit title contender.

Can ND get that type of QB? I'd say it's at least possible, which is the only avenue ND has at this point to winning a title.

[echo88]

Originally Posted by corysold

Your last thought on QB's nails the reason ND hasn't won a title. ND is never going to out talent Alabama, Ohio St., Clemson, etc. But, they have/get enough talent that if they can get a generational type QB, they could still win it.

Just look at last year. If you swap Book and Lawrence, ND probably beats Clemson. Our 3* overachiever did what those type of players do against that level. Their 5* superstar did the same. Swap just those two players, and ND is a legit title contender.

Can ND get that type of QB? I'd say it's at least possible, which is the only avenue ND has at this point to winning a title.

We already get those types of QBs. No one would ever be able to convince me that, coming up on a decade with BK, that we have simply been the victim of QB recruits who tend to regress. It's something else---it's his program, his plan for QB development, a penchant for making them think too much, etc....but once they are ruined, they are ruined for life. They don't go somewhere else and flourish---so it's something significant.

Book is seriously, like, what---the 4th or 5th QB under BK that has shown this type of regression and/or lack of progression? It's always the same---QB performs well in freshman/soph season then gets worse or shows obvious lack of improvement and gets replaced by another frosh who hasn't yet suffered from whatever this problem is....you could set your watch to it at this point.

I say at this point we might wanna start considering using it as a recruiting tool---come to ND where you will def get early playing time---just be sure to transfer out after your 2nd season.

[corysold]

Originally Posted by echo88

We already get those types of QBs. No one would ever be able to convince me that, coming up on a decade with BK, that we have simply been the victim of QB recruits who tend to regress. It's something else---it's his program, his plan for QB development, a penchant for making them think too much, etc....but once they are ruined, they are ruined for life. They don't go somewhere else and flourish---so it's something significant.

Book is seriously, like, what---the 4th or 5th QB under BK that has shown this type of regression and/or lack of progression? It's always the same---QB performs well in freshman/soph season then gets worse or shows obvious lack of improvement and gets replaced by another frosh who hasn't yet suffered from whatever this problem is....you could set your watch to it at this point.

I say at this point we might wanna start considering using it as a recruiting tool---come to ND where you will def get early playing time---just be sure to transfer out after your 2nd season.

I agree for the most part, but I think we need to see Book after this weekend to make a full judgement. Afterall, many of his numbers are up from where they were last year, granted he didn't have a New Mexico on the schedule last year.

I do like that his yards per attempt are up, even if his percentage is down, suggesting he's trying to push the ball more vertical, something that didn't happen last year.

Clemson and Georgia are at a similar level. So if he can't improve on his Clemson performance...

17/34 160 0 TD 1 INT with no intent to throw the ball deep

...then I'd say we can add him to the Kelly line of failed QBs.

You know I'm an eternal optimist, so I can find just enough facts to suggest that there is something else going on with each QB other than just Kelly.

Crist got hurt.
Rees got slightly better and he just wasn't that good.
Golson's peripheal passing numbers actually improved, even though he became a turnover machine.
Kizer lost 5 JR/SR WR (including Fuller) and had 5 FR/SO as best WR second year.
Wimbush was Wimbush.
Jury is still out for Book.

Now I know that trying to find a reason for 5 QB's only marginally improving at best is perhaps a fool's errand, but I'll always have hope until there's no hope left.

I'll also add that while ND is getting some good QBs, they aren't getting #1 ranked, 5* elite talent QBs like Tebow, Newton, Murray, Lawrence, etc., guys who put a team on their back on won a title. Jurkovec is the one guy to who almost falls into that category, so I guess we'll have to see what Kelly does to him.

[echo88]

Originally Posted by corysold

I agree for the most part, but I think we need to see Book after this weekend to make a full judgement. Afterall, many of his numbers are up from where they were last year, granted he didn't have a New Mexico on the schedule last year.

I do like that his yards per attempt are up, even if his percentage is down, suggesting he's trying to push the ball more vertical, something that didn't happen last year.

Clemson and Georgia are at a similar level. So if he can't improve on his Clemson performance...

17/34 160 0 TD 1 INT with no intent to throw the ball deep

...then I'd say we can add him to the Kelly line of failed QBs.

You know I'm an eternal optimist, so I can find just enough facts to suggest that there is something else going on with each QB other than just Kelly.

Crist got hurt.
Rees got slightly better and he just wasn't that good.
Golson's peripheal passing numbers actually improved, even though he became a turnover machine.
Kizer lost 5 JR/SR WR (including Fuller) and had 5 FR/SO as best WR second year.
Wimbush was Wimbush.
Jury is still out for Book.

Now I know that trying to find a reason for 5 QB's only marginally improving at best is perhaps a fool's errand, but I'll always have hope until there's no hope left.

I'll also add that while ND is getting some good QBs, they aren't getting #1 ranked, 5* elite talent QBs like Tebow, Newton, Murray, Lawrence, etc., guys who put a team on their back on won a title. Jurkovec is the one guy to who almost falls into that category, so I guess we'll have to see what Kelly does to him.

You forgot Zaire, but he suffered an injury in the 2nd game of his first full season....

[corysold]

Originally Posted by echo88

You forgot Zaire, but he suffered an injury in the 2nd game of his first full season....

Yeah, he gets an incomplete.

Funnily enough, I think his game vs. Texas had been the second highest QB rating in ND history at that point, 250, behind Clausen's epic 303 vs Nevada.

Book just put up a 257 vs New Mexico which puts Zaire to 3rd. Though I'm putting an asterick as I can't stand that those little WR quick flips count as passes.

[tneun89]

Originally Posted by corysold

I agree for the most part, but I think we need to see Book after this weekend to make a full judgement. Afterall, many of his numbers are up from where they were last year, granted he didn't have a New Mexico on the schedule last year.

I do like that his yards per attempt are up, even if his percentage is down, suggesting he's trying to push the ball more vertical, something that didn't happen last year.

Clemson and Georgia are at a similar level. So if he can't improve on his Clemson performance...

17/34 160 0 TD 1 INT with no intent to throw the ball deep

...then I'd say we can add him to the Kelly line of failed QBs.

You know I'm an eternal optimist, so I can find just enough facts to suggest that there is something else going on with each QB other than just Kelly.

Crist got hurt.
Rees got slightly better and he just wasn't that good.
Golson's peripheal passing numbers actually improved, even though he became a turnover machine.
Kizer lost 5 JR/SR WR (including Fuller) and had 5 FR/SO as best WR second year.
Wimbush was Wimbush.
Jury is still out for Book.

Now I know that trying to find a reason for 5 QB's only marginally improving at best is perhaps a fool's errand, but I'll always have hope until there's no hope left.

I'll also add that while ND is getting some good QBs, they aren't getting #1 ranked, 5* elite talent QBs like Tebow, Newton, Murray, Lawrence, etc., guys who put a team on their back on won a title. Jurkovec is the one guy to who almost falls into that category, so I guess we'll have to see what Kelly does to him.

Agree with all of this. I am fine with Book's completion percentage dropping 5 points if it means that he takes more chances. That dink-and-dunk stuff can only go so far. ND needs a more explosive offense to really compete - that's just the way college football is today. Alabama, Clemson, Georgia, Ohio State, and Oklahoma all have that. Everyone saw how LSU couldn't get it done with just a defense - now they have an offense and are one of the best teams in the country.

Book needs to play lights out against UGA for ND to have any shot at winning. He has Claypool and now Kmet (although who knows how effective he'll be in his first game back). Hopefully McKinley's emergence pushes Finke back to the slot where he is much more of a threat. With ND's running game likely stalling out, Book is going to throw it 40 times on Saturday. He will probably be our best running threat as well. He needs to play the game of his life for ND to have a chance at the upset.

I also agree with ND needing an elite QB, as in a 5-star QB, to come close to winning a National Title. ND hasn't had that since Clausen. I think Buchner in the 2021 class is shaping up to be that guy. He is already a Top 100 guy, but he is playing incredible this season and should move up in the rankings quite a bit. Jurkovec seems to be coming together after looking awful in the Spring, but who knows. Clark and Pyne are nice players, but neither is elite.

[coltssb]

I have a serious question here.


Do you think Kelly knows ND has a lot tighter restrictions than in years past?

I ask this because why would any coach continue to coach, especially at ND, knowing he will never win a National Championship. Isn't that the goal? Every good coach wants to be the best. It's mind boggling for me to think that Kelly doesn't believe he can win one here. Or else why coach here? And if he believes he can win, this falls flat on people believing that ND has lost its way. That they will never be back.

[ndmike88]

Originally Posted by coltssb

I have a serious question here.


Do you think Kelly knows ND has a lot tighter restrictions than in years past?

I ask this because why would any coach continue to coach, especially at ND, knowing he will never win a National Championship. Isn't that the goal? Every good coach wants to be the best. It's mind boggling for me to think that Kelly doesn't believe he can win one here. Or else why coach here? And if he believes he can win, this falls flat on people believing that ND has lost its way. That they will never be back.

I can think of $5-6 million reasons why he sticks around......Think about it. Kelly has the backing of Jack, he is expected to be in a bowl game (and with ND playing the New Mexico's & Ball States of the world that isn't hard) and Kelly knows there is very little pressure on him to win the big games. I think I read the other day that ND is 1-18 since 2005 facing top 5 teams. If he wins a huge game that's great, if not well ND wasn't expected to win anyway.
Kelly is perfect for the Irish....no pressure from Jack to win, get ND into a bowl game, fill the stadium and keep the $$$ rolling in. Who wouldn't want that job?? The coaches who don't want to coach at ND are the coaches who strive for perfection, who demand perfection and who know what it takes to win.

[Frankus]

Originally Posted by corysold

Your last thought on QB's nails the reason ND hasn't won a title. ND is never going to out talent Alabama, Ohio St., Clemson, etc. But, they have/get enough talent that if they can get a generational type QB, they could still win it.

Just look at last year. If you swap Book and Lawrence, ND probably beats Clemson. Our 3* overachiever did what those type of players do against that level. Their 5* superstar did the same. Swap just those two players, and ND is a legit title contender.

Can ND get that type of QB? I'd say it's at least possible, which is the only avenue ND has at this point to winning a title.

I agree with this. I'm hoping Phil has the goods. I was very encouraged by his play against NM. That long pass he hit in stride to Lenzy was elite. He has very good speed for a guy his size. I have no idea how consistently accurate he is with dink and dunk passes, which are staples of Kelly's offense. If he's consistent with those, our offense will be more dangerous, and hopefully elite, with him.

[echo88]

Originally Posted by Frankus

I agree with this. I'm hoping Phil has the goods. I was very encouraged by his play against NM. That long pass he hit in stride to Lenzy was elite. He has very good speed for a guy his size. I have no idea how consistently accurate he is with dink and dunk passes, which are staples of Kelly's offense. If he's consistent with those, our offense will be more dangerous, and hopefully elite, with him.

The problem, as mentioned earlier, is that the Phil you see now and maybe the Phil you see next season....won't be the same guy put behind center in 2021.

[Jersey Irish]

Originally Posted by coltssb

I have a serious question here.


Do you think Kelly knows ND has a lot tighter restrictions than in years past?

I ask this because why would any coach continue to coach, especially at ND, knowing he will never win a National Championship. Isn't that the goal? Every good coach wants to be the best. It's mind boggling for me to think that Kelly doesn't believe he can win one here. Or else why coach here? And if he believes he can win, this falls flat on people believing that ND has lost its way. That they will never be back.

Because his AD has his back at all times and this will be his last coaching stop when he decides he wants to retire.

[jbrown_9999]

Originally Posted by coltssb

I have a serious question here.


Do you think Kelly knows ND has a lot tighter restrictions than in years past?

I ask this because why would any coach continue to coach, especially at ND, knowing he will never win a National Championship. Isn't that the goal? Every good coach wants to be the best. It's mind boggling for me to think that Kelly doesn't believe he can win one here. Or else why coach here? And if he believes he can win, this falls flat on people believing that ND has lost its way. That they will never be back.

I get the impression that Kelly is not putting the same amount of time into recruiting as do other coaches who are considered elite recruiters.

If he was truly, truly serious about wanting to win a national championship, it seems that he would be making more of an effort.

[Kid Gloves]

Originally Posted by jbrown_9999

I get the impression that Kelly is not putting the same amount of time into recruiting as do other coaches who are considered elite recruiters.

If he was truly, truly serious about wanting to win a national championship, it seems that he would be making more of an effort.

There are a lot of things I knock BK for but recruiting isn’t one of them. Right off the bat, our pool of recruitable players is much smaller than the elite programs. He has to close at a much higher % on the players he is recruiting than other coaches simply because he doesn’t have as talented of players in the “plan B” pool. Secondly, he doesn’t have the home state recruiting bed of talented players like many of the elite programs have. At ND, you have to constantly be on a plane traveling hundreds or thousands of miles away to find players. Many of the elite programs coaches can coach practice in the afternoon and drive within 30 mins and visit the most talented kids right in their own backyard. For anyone that travels for a living you know the demands that puts on you. Further, he has to convince kids to come to a tiny, catholic school in a small town in IN where the weather sucks for half the year, the women are nowhere near as hot, the restrictions are extremely tight, and you can’t have nearly the fun or partying that you can in most of the other elite programs. Trying to convince an African American kid from the south, TX, or LA to go to South Bend is a very tough task.

Given these factors, I commend the job that BK has done recruiting. Overall I think he gets an A- in this area.

[jbrown_9999]

Originally Posted by Kid Gloves

There are a lot of things I knock BK for but recruiting isn’t one of them. Right off the bat, our pool of recruitable players is much smaller than the elite programs. He has to close at a much higher % on the players he is recruiting than other coaches simply because he doesn’t have as talented of players in the “plan B” pool. Secondly, he doesn’t have the home state recruiting bed of talented players like many of the elite programs have. At ND, you have to constantly be on a plane traveling hundreds or thousands of miles away to find players. Many of the elite programs coaches can coach practice in the afternoon and drive within 30 mins and visit the most talented kids right in their own backyard. For anyone that travels for a living you know the demands that puts on you. Further, he has to convince kids to come to a tiny, catholic school in a small town in IN where the weather sucks for half the year, the women are nowhere near as hot, the restrictions are extremely tight, and you can’t have nearly the fun or partying that you can in most of the other elite programs. Trying to convince an African American kid from the south, TX, or LA to go to South Bend is a very tough task.

Given these factors, I commend the job that BK has done recruiting. Overall I think he gets an A- in this area.

Programs such as Clemson, Ohio St, and Alabama are not getting most of their players from 30 minutes away.

Clemson had players from 14 different states and only 3 from South Carolina
Ohio St; 11 states; 5 from Ohio
Alabama 11 States; 6 from Alabama
Notre Dame 16 States; 1 from Indiana

Kelly has only had one Top 5 class. For non-transition years, he finished 9, 17, 5, 11, 13, 15, 10, 10, 16

Weis was 5, 6, 2, 15

If Kelly put more time into recruiting, he could have better results. An A- is generous. He had 2 out of his first 3 classes be in the Top 10, after that none. Did he get worse as a recruiter or just not work as hard?

[Kid Gloves]

Originally Posted by jbrown_9999

Programs such as Clemson, Ohio St, and Alabama are not getting most of their players from 30 minutes away.

Clemson had players from 14 different states and only 3 from South Carolina
Ohio St; 11 states; 5 from Ohio
Alabama 11 States; 6 from Alabama
Notre Dame 16 States; 1 from Indiana

Kelly has only had one Top 5 class. For non-transition years, he finished 9, 17, 5, 11, 13, 15, 10, 10, 16

Weis was 5, 6, 2, 15

If Kelly put more time into recruiting, he could have better results. An A- is generous. He had 2 out of his first 3 classes be in the Top 10, after that none. Did he get worse as a recruiter or just not work as hard?

I think you just proved my point. This programs get 3,5, and 6 times more of their kids locally than ND. And, yes, maybe some are more than 30 mins away, they are still in the same region of the country which is a lot easier to get there from a travel perspective.

However, you only addressed the travel and states perspective from my post. You didn’t touch on all of the other crucial factors I mentioned such as small school, weather, IN, religious, strict, convincing kids from warm weather states, much more limited amount of beautiful women, and academics.

These are huge negatives that ND has to overcome on the recruiting trail and will always be at a disadvantage to schools in warm weather states. This all combined is why I give BK an A-. It is infinitely harder to recruit at ND in today’s climate than it is at many other schools.

[jessemoore97]

Originally Posted by Kid Gloves

I think you just proved my point. This programs get 3,5, and 6 times more of their kids locally than ND. And, yes, maybe some are more than 30 mins away, they are still in the same region of the country which is a lot easier to get there from a travel perspective.

However, you only addressed the travel and states perspective from my post. You didn’t touch on all of the other crucial factors I mentioned such as small school, weather, IN, religious, strict, convincing kids from warm weather states, much more limited amount of beautiful women, and academics.

These are huge negatives that ND has to overcome on the recruiting trail and will always be at a disadvantage to schools in warm weather states. This all combined is why I give BK an A-. It is infinitely harder to recruit at ND in today’s climate than it is at many other schools.

Winning takes care of recruiting, and consistency is key. Kelly has not been consistent in the win column in 10 years compared to top programs. We are just three years removed from what could have been his firing after a disasterous sesson. We bounced backthe past two years putting up good numbers with 10+ wins which is step in the right direction.

However on the big stage we are really wanting for signature wins to generate buzz about being a legit contender. This year is no exception, a blowout loss to UGA alone, but also coupled with another loss sets us back with increased scrutiny when it comes to the playoffs or being a top team. We HAVE to win big games or at least look very competative in a single loss. We are at best a top 15 program and recruit to that standard until things on the field change. Year 10 for Kelly and the same old isn't very satisfying to me.