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Old 09-03-2019, 07:58 PM
hawaiiirish hawaiiirish is offline
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Default We will rise or fall with Ian Book

That unfortunately is that....we have no true break away threat at either RB or WR....Our defense will be good BUT NOT good enough to win games on its own, as a team we will rise and fall with the play of Ian Book!

What i saw from Ian yesterday was NOT encouraging. I expected him to be in FULL command of this offense....to lead us to 60% on 3rd downs...to move the chains...to be deadly accurate on the short throws. To be CRISP and CONFIDENT....

But lets FACE IT.....if IAN had played like that when he took over after 3 games last season WIMBUSH WOULD STILL BE ON THE TEAM!

Louisville was not a strong defense.... and Ian was floundering most of the game as has been pointed out by many posters.

He did find some rhythm late in the game , so there is that.....it was the first game so there is that....but I am not encouraged overall. If it wasn't for the success of our run game in the first quarter we might have LOST this game.

We simply cannot win 10 games with a run game and defense.... NOT going to happen.

A dominating ball control pass offense has to be the what makes the offense go.

Reasons for poor play

First game

Injuries to KMET Armstrong and Young plus Austins loss.....may have left BOOK with fewer openings and damaged our potential more then we realize.

Lack of third down push killed too many drives and broke Ians rhythm

Whatever the causes....if Ian cannot recover the form we all expect against the weaker teams we could lose 5 games this season.....Forget about Georgia, I don't expect much there...but repeat this game and half the teams we play can beat us.

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  #2  
Old 09-03-2019, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by hawaiiirish View Post
That unfortunately is that....we have no true break away threat at either RB or WR....Our defense will be good BUT NOT good enough to win games on its own, as a team we will rise and fall with the play of Ian Book!

What i saw from Ian yesterday was NOT encouraging. I expected him to be in FULL command of this offense....to lead us to 60% on 3rd downs...to move the chains...to be deadly accurate on the short throws. To be CRISP and CONFIDENT....

But lets FACE IT.....if IAN had played like that when he took over after 3 games last season WIMBUSH WOULD STILL BE ON THE TEAM!

Louisville was not a strong defense.... and Ian was floundering most of the game as has been pointed out by many posters.

He did find some rhythm late in the game , so there is that.....it was the first game so there is that....but I am not encouraged overall. If it wasn't for the success of our run game in the first quarter we might have LOST this game.

We simply cannot win 10 games with a run game and defense.... NOT going to happen.

A dominating ball control pass offense has to be the what makes the offense go.

Reasons for poor play

First game

Injuries to KMET Armstrong and Young plus Austins loss.....may have left BOOK with fewer openings and damaged our potential more then we realize.

Lack of third down push killed too many drives and broke Ians rhythm

Whatever the causes....if Ian cannot recover the form we all expect against the weaker teams we could lose 5 games this season.....Forget about Georgia, I don't expect much there...but repeat this game and half the teams we play can beat us.

aloha's
Look at Book's stats since the Northwestern game. This is who he is I think , he hit his ceiling.
I think the defense is good, but the offense will hold us back. I think we have at least 3 losses in us. People will stack the box and try to make Book beat them.
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Old 09-03-2019, 08:53 PM
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I still want to see what we in Lenzy. I think Book can have a better game, but as we thought I think its a big ask to beat Georgia on the road but who knows thats why they play the games.
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Old 09-03-2019, 09:01 PM
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We will rise of fall or break a nose with Book

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/errant-...154823050.html

PS - Board is spoiled. Most accurate QB in ND history and people are complaining.

Clausen was awesome but couldn't hit a receiver over the middle for the life of him.
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:43 AM
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We will rise of fall or break a nose with Book

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/errant-...154823050.html

PS - Board is spoiled. Most accurate QB in ND history and people are complaining.

Clausen was awesome but couldn't hit a receiver over the middle for the life of him.
Agree. ND did not need to show its entire playbook to win this game. Nor will the Irish need to in the next game vs, New Mexico.
The playbook will not be opened up until Georgia.
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Old 09-04-2019, 07:32 PM
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I hate the "we didnt show the whole playbook" argument. Kelly's playbook is fairly simple and there is no evidence in his 10 years that he ever expanded his playbook as the season went on.

I would even say he shrank it as Wimbush and Kizer struggled with inaccuracy as the season wore on. The bowl games seem to be the worst example since it appears there are only like 4 or 5 plays. No screens, no post-snap route changes. Basic as all heck.

Last edited by KellyisNasty; 09-04-2019 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 09-04-2019, 07:49 PM
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He struggles going through progressions, anticipating throws and he struggles with vision downfield because of his height.

We arenít beating Bama or Clemson with him but heís one of the most accurate qbs weíve had. Heís consistent and we can win 9-10 a year with him.

Iím afraid heís reached his ceiling and Iím not calling for Phil but we know he has a much higher ceiling. If he ever reaches that ceiling is another question.
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Old 09-05-2019, 12:20 AM
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He struggles going through progressions, anticipating throws and he struggles with vision downfield because of his height.

We arenít beating Bama or Clemson with him but heís one of the most accurate qbs weíve had. Heís consistent and we can win 9-10 a year with him.

Iím afraid heís reached his ceiling and Iím not calling for Phil but we know he has a much higher ceiling. If he ever reaches that ceiling is another question.
Is it really fair for the benchmark to be beating Clemson or Bama? Only a very, very small % of QBs can pull that off. Donít get me wrong, I donít think ND should permanently settle for being those teamís whipping boy, but to judge a QB as a success or failure based on their performance vs the two dynasties of the Modern era seems unfair.
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Old 09-05-2019, 01:18 AM
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Is it really fair for the benchmark to be beating Clemson or Bama? Only a very, very small % of QBs can pull that off. Donít get me wrong, I donít think ND should permanently settle for being those teamís whipping boy, but to judge a QB as a success or failure based on their performance vs the two dynasties of the Modern era seems unfair.
I do think itís fair, primarily because all I ever hear Kelly and Swarbrick spew out of their mouths is ďWe are ND, anything but a national title is unacceptable!Ē

If we were Pitt and Northwestern fans then sure itís unreasonable. However if a national title is the so called measure or standard we keep hearing about, then yes it is reasonable.
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Old 09-05-2019, 01:23 AM
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Is it really fair for the benchmark to be beating Clemson or Bama? Only a very, very small % of QBs can pull that off. Donít get me wrong, I donít think ND should permanently settle for being those teamís whipping boy, but to judge a QB as a success or failure based on their performance vs the two dynasties of the Modern era seems unfair.
I agree that it is unfair. However, heís got to at least show up and not be the main reason why we lose.
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Old 09-05-2019, 02:55 AM
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Does anyone think his lack of progressions may be by design? I hear a lot about playing fast, being decisive, etc. in sound bites from Long and Kelly. It also seems that while he certainly has options on routes, it feels like the coaches want him to make a quick decision and go with it. I don't have insight into the QB room and what they tell him, but it wouldn't surprise me if they push him to get the ball out or run within a few seconds.
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Old 09-05-2019, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by ELDER06 View Post
Is it really fair for the benchmark to be beating Clemson or Bama? Only a very, very small % of QBs can pull that off. Donít get me wrong, I donít think ND should permanently settle for being those teamís whipping boy, but to judge a QB as a success or failure based on their performance vs the two dynasties of the Modern era seems unfair.

We don't play for a conference championship or a bowl game at Notre Dame. We play for the National Championship so I think it's fair our QB can be judged on how they play against the big boys, it's part of being the qb for Notre Dame. It's one of the highest profile positions in all of college football.
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Old 09-05-2019, 04:07 AM
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He was throwing to Miles Boykin - a 3rd round pick with uber hops, size and speed.

Receivers need to step up and give him more to throw at.
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Old 09-05-2019, 12:57 PM
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We don't play for a conference championship or a bowl game at Notre Dame. We play for the National Championship so I think it's fair our QB can be judged on how they play against the big boys, it's part of being the qb for Notre Dame. It's one of the highest profile positions in all of college football.
Agree. It is going to be interesting to see what the game plan is. I don't think we can dink and dunk our way down the field against Georgia, but not sure if our receivers have the speed, and whether Book has the arm, for some big chunk plays. We'll see.
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Old 09-05-2019, 02:00 PM
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We don't play for a conference championship or a bowl game at Notre Dame. We play for the National Championship so I think it's fair our QB can be judged on how they play against the big boys, it's part of being the qb for Notre Dame. It's one of the highest profile positions in all of college football.
Sorry, but that isnít the case anymore. Itís pretty obvious that the best QBs coming out of HS are looking at other schools and not ND. We get the second tier kids but not the top kids. If it was such a prestigious position we would get the top guys.
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Old 09-05-2019, 02:27 PM
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Sorry, but that isnít the case anymore. Itís pretty obvious that the best QBs coming out of HS are looking at other schools and not ND. We get the second tier kids but not the top kids. If it was such a prestigious position we would get the top guys.
Pretty sure Phil wasn't a second tier kid...
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Old 09-05-2019, 02:38 PM
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Sorry, but that isnít the case anymore. Itís pretty obvious that the best QBs coming out of HS are looking at other schools and not ND. We get the second tier kids but not the top kids. If it was such a prestigious position we would get the top guys.
Here's the Rivals rankings in the Kelly era

Golson: #16 Dual Threat QB
Kiel: #1 Passing QB
Zaire:#3 Dual Threat QB
Kizer: #9 dual Threat QB
Wimbush: #4 Dual Threat QB
Book: #15 Pro Style QB
Jurcovek: #4 Dual Threat QB
Clark: #20 Pro Style QB

I will say this, even Urban Meyer-who had his share of Top 5 QB's- had two low ranked QB recruits. Also, it is a bit of a crap shoot. Look at Kiel. Every year you can see top guys who don't do anything. Also, I would say Kizer was our best Pro Style QB, but he was labelled as a dual threat. So, you never know. Overall, I do think that Kelly's Achilles heal is that he's never had truly elite play from the QB position. I'm talking about a guy who can make all the throws, while protecting the football. Whether this has some correlation to receiver recruiting is in the mix also.
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Old 09-05-2019, 02:57 PM
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Sorry, but that isnít the case anymore. Itís pretty obvious that the best QBs coming out of HS are looking at other schools and not ND. We get the second tier kids but not the top kids. If it was such a prestigious position we would get the top guys.
I donít think thatís necessarily true. I think QB is one of the few positions they can land almost any recruit at.
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Old 09-05-2019, 02:57 PM
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Pretty sure Phil wasn't a second tier kid...
He was not, Urban wanted him badly.
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Old 09-05-2019, 06:47 PM
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Two factors here that will limit the team's success this year:
1) Defenses have more film on Ian Book so they can key in on his weaknesses
2) Brian Kelly's dreaded 2nd-year starting QB woes
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Old 09-05-2019, 07:03 PM
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He was not, Urban wanted him badly.
Sorry...my rhetorical/sarcastic tone didn't come through over the keyboard... haha.
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Old 09-05-2019, 09:52 PM
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To the original start of the thread, I think Kelly might've been right post-game in that Ian was trying too hard to be "the man." Some guys take that leadership baton right in stride and are unfazed by it cuz they relish the role...not sure that's Ian makeup.

You also don't know how much the coaches have been filling his head with being the man on offense, and perhaps he overloaded himself with the weight of expectations.

At any rate, I think he'll settle down and settle in so that he's just goin' out there and ballin.' It also wouldn't hurt to have a legit deep threat at receiver to keep the defenses honest in coverage.
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Old 09-06-2019, 05:28 AM
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He was not, Urban wanted him badly.
I know we have had our disagreements but exactly! That's why I want to see him with some meaningful time. Urban himself recruited him hard which means something looking back at his QBs.
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Old 09-06-2019, 05:32 AM
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To the original start of the thread, I think Kelly might've been right post-game in that Ian was trying too hard to be "the man." Some guys take that leadership baton right in stride and are unfazed by it cuz they relish the role...not sure that's Ian makeup.

You also don't know how much the coaches have been filling his head with being the man on offense, and perhaps he overloaded himself with the weight of expectations.

At any rate, I think he'll settle down and settle in so that he's just goin' out there and ballin.' It also wouldn't hurt to have a legit deep threat at receiver to keep the defenses honest in coverage.
Book cant throw the ball downfield that's the issue, not the recievers. Not hating but he doesnt have the arm strength, that's why you see the dip and dunk throws.
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Old 09-06-2019, 01:37 PM
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Book cant throw the ball downfield that's the issue, not the recievers. Not hating but he doesnt have the arm strength, that's why you see the dip and dunk throws.
He does have the arm, the issue is he struggles with his vision down the field. The second the pocket isn’t clean Book is staring at a lineman’s back and he starts panicking. This ends in a sack or bad throw most of the time.

I’m not sure what he’s listed at but it can’t be more than 6’0”.
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