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Old 10-13-2019, 04:04 AM
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-Not Clark Lea’s finest moment.

-Tony Jones is under appreciated.

-Gilman needs to start making some tackles.

-Quit making Finke the focal point and give those targets to Lenzy, Claypool and McKinley.

-Book has hit his ceiling, however his legs have saved us more than once.

-Still baffled with the 3 down linemen.

-We got ourselves a kicker.

Thoughts?
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Old 10-13-2019, 04:07 AM
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Jonathon Doerer might be the most improved player from last year. I thought he would be a weakness this yr, but he has been really good all yr.
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Old 10-13-2019, 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by ndomer4 View Post
-Not Clark Leaís finest moment.

-Tony Jones is under appreciated.

-Gilman needs to start making some tackles.

-Quit making Finke the focal point and give those targets to Lenzy, Claypool and McKinley.

-Book has hit his ceiling, however his legs have saved us more than once.

-Still baffled with the 3 down linemen.

-We got ourselves a kicker.

Thoughts?
Only disagree with 3.
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Old 10-13-2019, 04:09 AM
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Biggest takeaway is the defense. Talked about it in the chat, but I donít think you can change your identity of the defense like that. If you want to mix in 3 man line ok.. but to go from an aggressive hard hitting D, to a soft bend but donít break? You canít do that in college. You have an identity stick to it.

Offense is same ole same ole except Lenzy.. holy crap that kid can fly. He needs 10-15 plays a game where he runs a seam, give him a jet sweep, or fake it to him. That type of speed backs up a defense .
Jones and Kmet are our offense right now. Keep feeding them.

Thatís my take aways.
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Old 10-13-2019, 04:12 AM
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Jones OLINE and Doerer get the game balls today.

Defense wore out for the first time

Ian made a couple of plays that counted but overall another very average performance from our QB

Tony Jones really turned those runs up with great effect....

3 great fgs we needed every one

hey we beat USC ill take it

aloha
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Old 10-13-2019, 04:13 AM
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hey we beat USC ill take it

aloha
3 years in a row. Hasn't happened since 1999-2001.
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Old 10-13-2019, 04:13 AM
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We decided the standard 3 down dime bend but don't break defense against the air raid offense. I thought Long messed up the game on its second drive by calling spread offense instead of 2 TE.

I thought this over exposed our package defense(as opposed to our base defense.)

As much as the offense messed it up in the first half they had a great power drive to save the game in the fourth quarter led by book runs against drop 8 coverage.
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Old 10-13-2019, 04:21 AM
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Old 10-13-2019, 04:28 AM
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Doerer matched Yoon's career long of 52 yards tonight.
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Old 10-13-2019, 04:30 AM
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Doerer matched Yoon's career long of 52 yards tonight.
truly amazing what the specialists have done this year, esp with all the anxiety and who they were replacing from last year.
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Old 10-13-2019, 05:46 AM
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Agree on Gilman. Heís so talented that turnovers will happen naturally for him. Guys are dragging him for an extra 8 yards because he keeps trying to strip the ball carrier.

Doerer is a pleasant surprise from last year.

I understand the prevent defense. But would an Alabama, Clemson or Ohio State completely change their identity for one game because they were scared of another teams offense? Thatís what we did and it made us look weak. We got the win but the pundits are going to look at the stats and game and say USC was in it and gashed NDís mighty defense. Donít play that crap again.

Something has to change with Book. The play-calling. Benching him. Fire Long. I dont know. But it literally looks like that all we are going to be able to do with Book at QB. Either our receivers arenít getting open, Books not seeing them or the plays suck. But our struggle of 5 yards dink passes and lack of explosive plays is really holding us back. We have the talent. We have to utilize it.

I just mentioned it. But Long needs to do a better job of prepping each week. That gameplan vs Georgia was the best Iíve seen since the Oklahoma game in 2012 BK era. But we always go back to this weird playcalling where we look unenthusiastic and nobodyís on the same page. For those fast paced Cincinnati teams BK has, we have been anything but fast or fantastic.

Have to put our foot on their throats. Thatís what championship teams do. And today showed me we still arenít there.
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Old 10-13-2019, 06:21 AM
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Something has to change with Book. The play-calling. Benching him. Fire Long. I dont know. But it literally looks like that all we are going to be able to do with Book at QB. Either our receivers arenít getting open, Books not seeing them or the plays suck. But our struggle of 5 yards dink passes and lack of explosive plays is really holding us back. We have the talent. We have to utilize it.
This. Book stinks. Well, that isn't fair to say but he isn't a ND championship level QB. He is the latest in a long line of degraded QBs who failed to progress and even regressed. With a decent QB we win that game by two touchdowns, with Book we squeak it out. I appreciate what he has done but we need a homerun at QB for recruiting. Kelly is still recruiting Cincy calibre QBs but you don't win championships (usually) with a fair to middlin' QB at the wheel. He frustrates me. His legs saved us from his own mistakes. Make the GD easy throws on first and second down and then he doesn't have to scramble for a third down conversion.
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Old 10-13-2019, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by vangordersmustache View Post
Biggest takeaway is the defense. Talked about it in the chat, but I donít think you can change your identity of the defense like that. If you want to mix in 3 man line ok.. but to go from an aggressive hard hitting D, to a soft bend but donít break? You canít do that in college. You have an identity stick to it.

Offense is same ole same ole except Lenzy.. holy crap that kid can fly. He needs 10-15 plays a game where he runs a seam, give him a jet sweep, or fake it to him. That type of speed backs up a defense .
Jones and Kmet are our offense right now. Keep feeding them.

Thatís my take aways.
Claypool as well
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Old 10-13-2019, 01:14 PM
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We run for over 300 yards, Jones with 175 yet the focus is on Book and how he "sucks". Book however is exactly who they thought he was, Dual Threat who is capable of leading an offense yet lacking the supreme talent some other teams possess. Yet tell me other than Clemson, which was more on the coaches than Book, we've been blown out with him the starter? He also wasn't helped with a couple of drops, 2 from Tremble stand out and he was much more committed to staying in the pocket due to the play of the Oline.
When ND needed to close out the game, he engineered a 75 yard, 14 play clock eating 6:35 drive, all but assuring 3 in a row and 7-3 over the past decade. I'll take it.
One point I agree is the outside throw to Finke but in his defense, he's a slot receiver playing the boundary and had little to no blocking, leaving him on an island to create positive yardage.
Had Young not fumbled the kick return, I don't know if he was changing hands or his arm simply bumped it loose, he had 6 and the momentum likely would've been too much for SC to mount the comeback everyone should've known was coming.
This game showed we CAN run inside, have elite speed and coaches who can scheme and adjust. We have guys on D who will be playing in the NFL next year and bringing the fight to the opposition. Loved the scrum at the end of the 1st half, led by Khalid Kareem.
Tough road game ahead against scUM, another night game, charged crowd but if we can run against them like we did tonite, should take the crowd out of it and well deserved Irish win.
GO IRISH!
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Old 10-13-2019, 01:14 PM
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Some perspective. Here's a little information about the last 4 recruiting cycle rankings (24/7):

2016: USC 10, Michigan 8, ND 15
2017: USC 4, Michigan 5, ND 10
2018: USC 4, Michigan 22, ND 10
2019: USC 20, Michigan 8, ND 16

USC has better overall talent. Michigan has better overall talent.

Combined records 2017 season through yesterday:
USC 19-13, Michigan 23-9, ND 27-5

I fully admit I get too anxious to watch most of the games. I watch about 5-10 minutes of these type games. To me, outcomes matter more than who is throwing to whom or who is carrying how many times per game or who missed how many tackles and who is to blame for those things.

Looking at talent levels, I think this coaching staff must be doing a lot of things right. Looking at the record, I know they are.

Comparing ND's talent to Alabama (33-2), Georgia (29-6), Clemson (33-2), and Ohio State (31-3) is different. Those teams have ridiculously more talent than ND.

I suspect Helton and staff are ushered out at year's end. Recruiting slipped for them last cycle and this cycle they're nowhere to be found.

Coaching does make a difference and this ND staff, to me, is maximizing the talent they have. It also seems to me that recruiting is more solid than it has been in years.

ND won't win a national championship with this talent level unless the stars and planets align just right. But, once in a while those things happen. I'm still on record as saying I think that could happen next year. Even if it doesn't, I'm pretty happy with the wins, no matter how they are achieved.
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Old 10-13-2019, 02:15 PM
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I understand the prevent defense. But would an Alabama, Clemson or Ohio State completely change their identity for one game because they were scared of another teams offense? That’s what we did and it made us look weak. We got the win but the pundits are going to look at the stats and game and say USC was in it and gashed ND’s mighty defense. Don’t play that crap again.
Totally agree, my biggest take away was how chicken **** we looked with that three deep scheme. Hamilton was almost in the end zone when they got to midfield. Tackling was also pathetic but I’m hoping this game was an anomaly.

We changed things up vs UVA in the first half and it didn’t work. Lea went back to our identity and we wrecked them. Why he didn’t do what’s been working all year is still a surprise to me.

Offensively I think we have an identity but we haven’t fully committed to it yet. The two tight end set and power running game looks to be what we do best. Props to faith for calling this a few weeks ago. We seem to use it for half a drive then we force a bad pass or play to Finke then the drive stalls. We need the run to be our bread and butter then play action to Claypool, Kmet or McKinley. You know... players who could actually play on other playoff teams!
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Old 10-13-2019, 02:33 PM
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Did not like the 3 man rush. It almost bit us in the ***
The O-line played hard and Jones ran hard. They dominated USC
Book made some clutch/veteran plays at key times
We used to lose these games. Now we win. Nice progress.
Lenzy should get the ball more running instead of Finke
We should beat Michigan. Go Irish!

Last edited by Frankus; 10-13-2019 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 10-13-2019, 02:39 PM
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I don't care how we get the win, I'll take it. We were in control of this game and for some of the doom and gloom around here, imagine how'd you feel this morning had we lost?

Yesterday we also added another big time recruit, and I am sure the recruits watching in attendance last night left impressed with everything.

Plus beating U$C always is a good thing.
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Old 10-13-2019, 03:25 PM
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Did Lenzy not play the second half?
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Old 10-13-2019, 03:32 PM
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First and foremost, we beat SC. I donít care how we get it done as long as we walk away with the W against them.

The 2 biggest things that continue to frustrate me are: 1. The offensive play calling. We just donít stick with what is working. Not one of the WR screens worked last night. The run game was working yet we kept mixing in useless plays that gained nothing but put us in longer yardage situations and stalled drives. And 2, our continued lack of adjustments at halftime. We seem to make no solid adjustments going into the 3rd qtr and our opponents make solid ones that get them back in games. Georgia and USC both won the 3rd and took the momentum. Tired of that happening in big games.

Lastly, I was at the game and the crowd was really into it. First half was rocking! But the **** poor 3rd qtr took the energy right out of the crowd and it fell flat. It got going again in the 4th But by then SC had the momentum. Fun atmosphere though! One of the best highlights was when the ref at the end of the first half accidentally called SC, UCLA!! The crowd kept chanting UCLA at SC and it was hilarious! Did it again at the end of the game. Great moment!
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Old 10-13-2019, 04:35 PM
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Anyone mention how buddy coughed up the ball with no opponent contact on a breakaway kickoff return that surely would have been six?
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Old 10-13-2019, 04:52 PM
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Disagree with what most are saying about the defense. I thought Clark Lea played things the right way. ND was short handed with the loss of Crawford. Youíre rolling Donte Vaughn out there against the best WR group - St. Brown, Vaughnís, Pittman - ND will face all year (including if they played Clemson, Bama, etc.). ND held them largely in check, although the St. Brown TD was a bad play by Elliot (but good throw by the USC QB). That same WR group had over 300 yards last year. Last night, they combined for 188 yards, plus the St. Brown TD and the Vaughns TD (why canít Pride make a play on the ball this year?). ND had to adjust and ďchange its identityĒ because it would have given up a bunch of points in the base defense with our CB group against those WRs. NDís CBs needed help over the top which is why Elliot, Gilman, and Hamilton were on the field a lot together last night. The deep safeties prevented USC from hitting the big play and forced them to go on long, sustained drives (which they did because theyíre a talented offense).

I give Lea credit for largely stopping the air raid attack because that was the only way USC could win. I was disappointed in the run defense giving up 171 yards on the ground, but that was just the way it went with ND in Dime much of the night. Mildly disappointed in how the group finished the game (77-yard TD drive in two and a half minutes), but thought they mostly played well. That is a really good offense capable of scoring a bunch of points with that skill talent.

If NDís offense didnít always start so slow and if Young doesnít fumble on the kick return, ND likely covers and the game is out of reach going into the 4th Quarter.
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Old 10-13-2019, 04:59 PM
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I thought the defensive gameplan made a lot of sense until they figured out they could throw it up, but thats what they wouldíve done if we blitzed every down. You have a true freshman qb and a young beat up USC offense... Make them sustain drives. It was a smart game plan. We won.
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Old 10-13-2019, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
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Disagree with what most are saying about the defense. I thought Clark Lea played things the right way. ND was short handed with the loss of Crawford. You’re rolling Donte Vaughn out there against the best WR group - St. Brown, Vaughn’s, Pittman - ND will face all year (including if they played Clemson, Bama, etc.). ND held them largely in check, although the St. Brown TD was a bad play by Elliot (but good throw by the USC QB). That same WR group had over 300 yards last year. Last night, they combined for 188 yards, plus the St. Brown TD and the Vaughns TD (why can’t Pride make a play on the ball this year?). ND had to adjust and “change its identity” because it would have given up a bunch of points in the base defense with our CB group against those WRs. ND’s CBs needed help over the top which is why Elliot, Gilman, and Hamilton were on the field a lot together last night. The deep safeties prevented USC from hitting the big play and forced them to go on long, sustained drives (which they did because they’re a talented offense).

I give Lea credit for largely stopping the air raid attack because that was the only way USC could win. I was disappointed in the run defense giving up 171 yards on the ground, but that was just the way it went with ND in Dime much of the night. Mildly disappointed in how the group finished the game (77-yard TD drive in two and a half minutes), but thought they mostly played well. That is a really good offense capable of scoring a bunch of points with that skill talent.

If ND’s offense didn’t always start so slow and if Young doesn’t fumble on the kick return, ND likely covers and the game is out of reach going into the 4th Quarter.

Vaughn is a senior, if he can’t be the ‘next man in’ then something is wrong with the program. Georgia and USC are paper thin at DB and did just fine against us. I’ve heard the next man in mantra too much from Kelly.

I still have no idea why we went with three down linemen all game. Everytime we had a 4 man front or blitzed we got pressure and it resulted in a Slovis incompletion. Sure, have Hamilton on the field all game but bring a safety in the box and add another lineman.

Agree on Pride, he looked better in 2017 when he was mainly playing nickel.
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Old 10-13-2019, 05:15 PM
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What's wrong with an approach that wins the game?

The only way USC wins is with big plays for TD's. ND stopped that short of one to St. Brown. They won the game and didn't play that great on offense.

USC had 3 points at halftime and ND was on the verge of going up 24-3 if Young didn't drop the ball without being touched.

Was it a perfect game? Of course not, I still don't understand why DB's can't turn their heads, but they won and it was never really in doubt.
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