Notre Dame Football News And Talk  


Come check out the news feed! DD Front Page

Go Back   Notre Dame Football News And Talk > Message Board > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-14-2019, 10:04 PM
KellyisNasty KellyisNasty is offline
Junior Member
Domer Domain Junior
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,007
Default Jeff Quinn was an awful hire

That is all
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Don't like this ad? Register to make it go away!

  #2  
Old 09-14-2019, 10:26 PM
ndomer4's Avatar
ndomer4 ndomer4 is online now
Member
Domer Domain Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Posts: 4,923
Default

When Kelly doesn’t hire his buddy’s it works out great. Elko, Lea and Long.

We’ve seen this with BVG and him hiring his GVSU buddies. Hopefully this doesn’t cost us the playoffs like BVG did in 2015.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-15-2019, 12:07 AM
4thand1 4thand1 is offline
Junior Member
Domer Domain Walk-On
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 244
Default

I think some people will never be satisfied with the OL coach. Plenty of people wanted Hiestand gone last year. He's pretty much thought of as one of the best O line coaches anywhere. Personally, I think what the linemen are being asked to do isn't rocket science. I will value the ability to sign 4 & 5 star linemen over x's and o's ability since I don't think it's overly complex. The players have to execute what they have been taught.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-15-2019, 12:29 AM
Dardo's Avatar
Dardo Dardo is offline
Junior Member
Domer Domain Freshman
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: South Bend, Indiana
Posts: 955
Default

So here's my thing: I agree Quinn was not a good hire, and I agree with everyone who says that Kelly's assistants hiring seem to go better when he hires outside of his FCS coaching tree. I wish they could have kept Heistand or hire a young, hungry guy like they did at other positions groups.

I also don't think anything that happened this game was attributable to Quinn. ND has struggled running the ball in short yardage situations throughout Kelly's tenure. More than a few of you guys called Mcglinchley "Mcflinchey" after a couple of false starts and he was a first round pick and nearly an all-pro.

Now I'm someone who has disliked Kelly for a very long time for reasons both on and off the field, but I don't want him fired (although a retirement soon wouldn't be the end of the world) but to blame an O-line coach or O-coordinator when the offense has had the same issues no matter who is at those positions seems wrong to me. We have had multiple coaches at both positions over the years and the issues have been the same. At some point it's just how Kelly wants his offense to run. Slow developing, easy to read run plays with very little misdirection and an offensive line that can't seem to dominate lesser teams, much less equal teams.

Now I'm hoping we run some inventive, power runs next week and were just saving everything for Georgia, but I feel like I should know better after 10 years.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-15-2019, 01:04 AM
FaithInIrishForever's Avatar
FaithInIrishForever FaithInIrishForever is offline
Moderator
Domer Domain All American
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: pa
Posts: 9,067
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dardo View Post
So here's my thing: I agree Quinn was not a good hire, and I agree with everyone who says that Kelly's assistants hiring seem to go better when he hires outside of his FCS coaching tree. I wish they could have kept Heistand or hire a young, hungry guy like they did at other positions groups.

I also don't think anything that happened this game was attributable to Quinn. ND has struggled running the ball in short yardage situations throughout Kelly's tenure. More than a few of you guys called Mcglinchley "Mcflinchey" after a couple of false starts and he was a first round pick and nearly an all-pro.

Now I'm someone who has disliked Kelly for a very long time for reasons both on and off the field, but I don't want him fired (although a retirement soon wouldn't be the end of the world) but to blame an O-line coach or O-coordinator when the offense has had the same issues no matter who is at those positions seems wrong to me. We have had multiple coaches at both positions over the years and the issues have been the same. At some point it's just how Kelly wants his offense to run. Slow developing, easy to read run plays with very little misdirection and an offensive line that can't seem to dominate lesser teams, much less equal teams.

Now I'm hoping we run some inventive, power runs next week and were just saving everything for Georgia, but I feel like I should know better after 10 years.
Yeah I've documented my objection. I mostly agree with you. I'm guessing this thread(not your post) was posted after a few players jumped offsides and otherwise missed assignments. The offensive line as a whole does not get substituted 5 for 5, very often. Thats why when people that hadn't played before made mistakes I urged patience. Quinn is in an impossible situation, he both follows Hiestand and has been with Kelly a long time. So when his name gets called its because something bad happened.

We need to pick up 3rd and short for sure. 1 for 10 won't cut it. The offensive line coach often takes the blame in these cases
__________________
Moderator


Keep That Fighting Spirit

"Let me see you disrespect me now, when my face is to ya" Lou Holtz


Resident video nerd and DomerDomain MVP since 2011
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-15-2019, 03:26 AM
Jersey Irish's Avatar
Jersey Irish Jersey Irish is offline
Member
Domer Domain Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mine Hill, New Jersey
Posts: 4,419
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ndomer4 View Post
When Kelly doesn’t hire his buddy’s it works out great. Elko, Lea and Long.

We’ve seen this with BVG and him hiring his GVSU buddies. Hopefully this doesn’t cost us the playoffs like BVG did in 2015.
But you have to admit, he is a heck of a recruiter
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-15-2019, 03:46 AM
soulpatch soulpatch is offline
Junior Member
Domer Domain Walk-On
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 325
Default

Jeff Quinn was not an awful hire, that is all
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-15-2019, 04:01 AM
Kid Gloves's Avatar
Kid Gloves Kid Gloves is offline
Junior Member
Domer Domain Sophomore
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,321
Default

I don’t know what the real problem is or who is to blame. All I know is that I am sick and tired of our O Line never dominating teams and picking up short yardage when we need it. It’s fricking embarrassing.

Georgia’s D line is going to chew us up and spit us out. It will be like Clemson all over again. If we keep the game within 25 points it will be a moral victory.
__________________
"Response? Yeah, I have a response. Uh....What?!?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-15-2019, 06:08 AM
golson5 golson5 is offline
Junior Member
Domer Domain Sophomore
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,223
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by soulpatch View Post
Jeff Quinn was not an awful hire, that is all
Not awful...But doesnt look good so far
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-15-2019, 06:46 AM
jmfinsd jmfinsd is offline
Junior Member
Domer Domain Walk-On
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 103
Default

Let's see. Became ND's OL coach in January 2018. Went 12-0 regular season. Embarassing loss to Clemson in playoffs, but better against Clemson than Alabama fared. 2-0 this year. So a 14-1 record as an OL coach. Now I'm not saying he's a great coach. I don't know enough about the details of offensive line play to give a critical evaluation. I wish they would blow teams off the line on short yardage plays, too. But for every short yardage failure, there have been holes big enough that people on this board could have run through and scored. Great? I don't think so. Awful? I don't think so.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-15-2019, 07:37 AM
jessemoore97 jessemoore97 is offline
Member
Domer Domain Junior
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 3,675
Default

Year 10, it's the scheme. This is the offense we run and it's been very frustrating every single year because it's very Jekyll and Hyde, and short yardage situations are up in the air too often. We are predictable and are peskily countered by competent DC's with even median talent on that side of the ball, while top schools generally don't have a problem stopping us at all.

We get into funks too often and at very inappropriate times in games. We outsmart ourselves more often than the intended opponent by moving away from stuff that's clearly working in our favor and missing the obvious plays that should be working repeatedly *cough* TE seam, which would alleviate pressure D's who load the box.

All this has an effect on the D as well, and has been noted repeatedly by many. Georgia is a run team, and you know they are salivating to hit our soft interior on D. They will eat clock and sustain drives against us, wearing out our D with their great and multiple RB's. We have to give the D rest and sustain drives, but historically we seem to forget or ignore this dimension as the O needs to help the D.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-15-2019, 01:07 PM
TheRizz TheRizz is offline
Junior Member
Domer Domain Junior
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,262
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyisNasty View Post
That is all
First two games have had defenses loading up to stop run

Kmet hurt. Young hurt. Best running back Jafar hurt.

BLAME Quinn!!!! Seriously, our fans are never happy
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-15-2019, 01:32 PM
corysold's Avatar
corysold corysold is offline
Tenured
Domer Domain Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Cortland, IL
Posts: 13,859
Default

I don't know if I'd say it was an awful hire.

Last year ND ranked 23rd in Power success rate, which is getting a first down on 3rd or 4th down and 2 or less to go. That isn't terrible.

Ohio St. was 109th.
Michigan was 79th.
Clemson was 86th.

ND was not good in stuff rate, which is the plays that are stopped behind the line of scrimmage, which we can all agree needs to get better. But ND isn't terrible in 3rd and 4th and short. I think teams struggle more than we think, but since we aren't watching every down of their games like we do ND, we don't see it.

Also remember, that two of those TD "passes" yesterday, were basically handoffs that the run game doesn't get credit for. Add 110 yards to the run total yesterday on two carries and things look better.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-15-2019, 04:15 PM
PaddyO's Avatar
PaddyO PaddyO is offline
Junior Member
Domer Domain Walk-On
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 470
Default

Our short yardage run blocking has long been a source of frustration for me. I can't really blame Quinn, the problem predates his arrival. We have had great linemen (what is it, 3 straight 1st round picks at LT?), but we have consistently failed to run effectively in short-yardage situations. Every time I see us try to pull a lineman in 3rd and 2, I want to scream. Our lineman are typically bigger, and more physical than the guy lined up across from him. Put a body on him, hold a block for 2 seconds, and have a back hit the hole quick. It's not rocket science. When you try to pull a lineman into 5he hole on short yardage, you are just adding congestion. Not to mention that a quicker DL will just follow the pulling lineman into the backfield. Pulling line.an is great when you are asking them to clean up the second level of the defense. You don't need to worry about the second level if you only need 2 yards.

My two cents...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-15-2019, 04:47 PM
Fifth Horseman's Avatar
Fifth Horseman Fifth Horseman is offline
Junior Member
Domer Domain Sophomore
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,088
Default

You guys know we won by 52 points, right?
__________________
"In dramatic lore they are known as famine, pestilence, destruction and death. These are only aliases. Their real names are: Stuhldreher, Miller, Crowley and Layden." - Grantland Rice
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-15-2019, 05:04 PM
corysold's Avatar
corysold corysold is offline
Tenured
Domer Domain Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Cortland, IL
Posts: 13,859
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaddyO View Post
Our short yardage run blocking has long been a source of frustration for me. I can't really blame Quinn, the problem predates his arrival. We have had great linemen (what is it, 3 straight 1st round picks at LT?), but we have consistently failed to run effectively in short-yardage situations. Every time I see us try to pull a lineman in 3rd and 2, I want to scream. Our lineman are typically bigger, and more physical than the guy lined up across from him. Put a body on him, hold a block for 2 seconds, and have a back hit the hole quick. It's not rocket science. When you try to pull a lineman into 5he hole on short yardage, you are just adding congestion. Not to mention that a quicker DL will just follow the pulling lineman into the backfield. Pulling line.an is great when you are asking them to clean up the second level of the defense. You don't need to worry about the second level if you only need 2 yards.

My two cents...
Is this your perception, or fact? Everyone always complains about the times ND fails to get a 3rd and 2, but forget all of the time they get it.

Last year ND converted on 3rd or 4th and short 78.3% of the time, 23rd in the nation. Alabama was 6th at 82.6%. Not much difference.

ND converted nearly 4 out of 5 times, one of the top 20% in the nation, and that isn't good enough.

In 2017 they were 71.4%. 2016 it was 76.2%, 16th in the nation, better than Alabama who was at 75%.

But this is besides the point really, as you don't have to be amazing at 3rd and short to be a great team, nor does being great at it make you great.

Last year Memphis was #1 in the nation at 93.1% and went 8-6. Army is always near the top as well.

But you can also be bad at 3rd and short and still be a great team. Here are Clemson's rank in that catergory:

2018 86th
2017 38th
2016 95th
2015 5th
2014 126th

They still manage to be alright as a program.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-15-2019, 05:12 PM
ND_JACK ND_JACK is offline
Junior Member
Domer Domain Walk-On
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Syracuse, New York
Posts: 69
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fifth Horseman View Post
You guys know we won by 52 points, right?
Yes but that is NOT going to continue if we don’t get some more consistent line play especially in short yardage situations when we face better competition. I think that is what everyone is concerned with here.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-15-2019, 06:25 PM
IRISHKENLIFER's Avatar
IRISHKENLIFER IRISHKENLIFER is offline
Junior Member
Domer Domain Walk-On
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 416
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ND_JACK View Post
Yes but that is NOT going to continue if we don’t get some more consistent line play especially in short yardage situations when we face better competition. I think that is what everyone is concerned with here.
I would just like to see us fire off the line and get some push. When you outweigh the guy in front of you by at least 30 lbs, that's what I would expect. What will happen when you meet a defensive line as big and as fast as your guys are? I guess we will find out next week.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-16-2019, 10:49 PM
corysold's Avatar
corysold corysold is offline
Tenured
Domer Domain Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Cortland, IL
Posts: 13,859
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHKENLIFER View Post
I would just like to see us fire off the line and get some push. When you outweigh the guy in front of you by at least 30 lbs, that's what I would expect. What will happen when you meet a defensive line as big and as fast as your guys are? I guess we will find out next week.
Offensive lines are always bigger than defensive lines. An average NFL OL is 315. Average DE is 278. DT is 308. That's 30-40 pounds on the edges and NFL teams don't just line up and get 3 yards at will. To suggest a college team should is crazy. And it isn't always just a one on one battle. The defense has 7 guys in place to stop the run. The OL has 5 players. To suggest it is always the fault of the offensive line is too simple. If eveyone on the OL just fires off and blocks the guy in front of them 5 yards down field, there are still 2 LB to tackle the ball unblocked, plus a safety most likely if it's 3rd and short.
__________________

Last edited by corysold; 09-16-2019 at 10:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump

Also visit IrishEnvy, our Notre Dame Football partner site

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:25 AM.

Last Updated: November 13, 2019

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.