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#26
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The USA has always been a union of various states. Many, myself included, forget that it is even in the name: UNITED STATES of America. The constitution was written with that in mind because they realized that a country will have people influenced differently depending on where they live. People who grow up in Kansas have different values than people who grow up in the big cities. The people in Kansas were promised an equal representation on federal laws that will affect them. The electoral college fulfills that promise to each of the states. There is a process in place for a state to leave the Union. Again, California benefited greatly when it first became a state from the electoral college, now that they are the most populated state, they do not see the need. This is why there are checks and balances so that the majority do not always have the final say. |
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#27
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#28
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1) There is a difference in giving each state equal representation in the senate (what they were promised) and giving each state equal representation overall (what they were NOT promised). Even under the EC each state gets different representation.
2) I'm of the belief that states matter less now. When I think of myself I think of a US citizen, not a citizen of my state. And there is more movement today (for ex. I currently don't live in the state I was born in). So while each state is different I don't see them as having an identity that needs special protection. Representation in congress, and especially the senate, takes care of protecting state's rights, so I don't see the need to give low population states a leg up when it comes to electing a president who represents the entire country. Its the old saying, before the civil war the United states are, after the civil war the United States is. 3) Calling people who live in cities crazy and saying we shouldn't be run like them isn't a strong argument. Currently cities are experiencing far greater economic growth than rural states, they generally are better at guaranteeing equal rights to minorities, and they tend to come up with more novel solutions to problems. You might call that crazy, but others would say the rural states could use a little of that. |
#29
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#30
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To me it's a matter of states, not a matter of populace. The United States is a union of individual states. Certainly a large percentage of the population of this union agrees with you that states don't matter as much any more. However, since it is a union of individual states, and states will not ever want to give up power that they have, I don't see that a change of the electoral college in the way you want will ever happen. Changes may happen, but I do not believe it will ever become a one person - one vote situation as it relates to electing a President. |
#31
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This tread is fantastic!
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#32
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I'm of the opinion that EC should be overhauled. It no longer does what it needs to do.
As an example, take a look at the political map of CA or WA State. It's a couple blue dots surrounded by red. The entire state of Washington deals with whatever laws or politicians Seattle wants voted in. The east side of the state is in open revolt over some of the stuff that's been voted in lately. A solution might be to break the electoral college down even further. Perhaps an electoral vote awarded by county? There would probably have to be a way to weight large counties vs small counties, but it might encourage more people to vote AND it would force candidates to have to account for less populated areas. Think how you'd feel if you were a Republican in CA or a Democrat in Idaho. It would seem like your vote doesn't count for ****. The country is devolving into a urban vs rural debate in my opinion, and that has to be accounted for somehow. |
#33
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#34
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I should have been more clear. The debate is now that rural people are backwater hicks and urban folks are educated elitists. At least that's what it appears to be to me.
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#35
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Agree. And I suppose that too has been an age old stereotype, at least towards rural people. Bell curve for intelligence appliesto both though.
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#36
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I do think having all EC votes of a particular state go one direction is out-dated. For example, California is probably 90% Democrat, 10% Republican... so maybe their EC votes should reflect that. Obviously, the same is very true for every state, but California is one of the most one-sided states in the country with a MASSIVE population. California is the main reason why the EC still needs to exist... otherwise they would determine everything for the entire country. |
#37
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You do this and you might as well do popular vote. The disparity, as you pointed out is much greater in favor of Dems in these states. Let’s take Texas, give Hilary 43% of those electoral votes and it’s a landslide. It’s all good you right wingers want to keep it now because it benefits you. AZ and TX are turning you could win the whole Midwest sans ill and MN and in ten years it won’t matter. Get ready for blood baths every election in 10 years. TX will turn blue it is only a matter of time. I vote keep it so I can see the right crying about it in 2028. I wouldn’t be surprised if TX almost turns in 2020, the legal immigrants still don’t like seeing their people in cages illegal or not and will come out in force. Beto wins the primary and it is a wrap. Last edited by Jim2Dokes; 04-20-2019 at 09:20 PM. |
#38
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Jim,
We all heard about how Hillary was going to win in a landslide. I sure thought she was because that's what the talking heads were saying. It all depends on who the DNC can put up. A middle of the road Democrat would do better than some of these crackpots that the DNC is trying to foist on the public. Trump has more of a chance in 2020 than he did in 2016. We've seen what he can do with an investigation hanging over his head. Country is doing alright. Of course, that could all change in a heartbeat.... which is what I think the left wants. We're all on this boat together.... might be a good idea to hope the captain keeps her afloat. |
#39
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__________________
Tough Times Don't Last, Tough People Do! |
#40
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Huh? This dude laid out facts and you post this? Childish? Your speaking the jibberish language. He laid out actual facts on why the electoral was setup, facts you can’t argue them, because they are facts. Not Fox News, facts.
Last edited by Jim2Dokes; 04-25-2019 at 01:16 PM. |
#41
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#42
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illegals do not scare me one bit, for the US is simply playing nice, most countries, especially in the past, would use lethal force against thousands of people forcing their way in. The day illegals step-up with violence will be a bad day for them. As a middle of the road type of guy, I see the Dems losing touch with their fanbase, they are moving too far left. They are making even a fool like Trump seem sane. |
#43
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To your other point, wrong again https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox...ial-losses.amp And Trump tweet in 2012: Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy Last edited by Jim2Dokes; 04-27-2019 at 06:38 PM. |
#44
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2. I dont care about any Trump tweet, literally does nothing for me. Especially when Trump has been a "Republican" for only a few years now. I would say a tweet from 2012 is questionable on which side you are trying to use it to "attack." 3. Did you read the article or just the headline you posted? It literally says the same thing we were just talking about. Not all of the state's votes going one direction, but giving a voice to the minority of each state. That is not abolishing the Electoral College; now you can argue if that is a good thing or not, which you tried to do early, but that is not the same thing as abolishing it. Last edited by NDhoosier; 04-27-2019 at 06:47 PM. |
#45
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Last edited by Jim2Dokes; 04-27-2019 at 08:27 PM. |
#46
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But it’s not Latinos alone driving the change. Many Latinos are pretty conservative. I see that in my business every day. It has a lot to do with people moving here from everywhere else (US and other countries) to get jobs. They bring their politics with them, and the jobs are in the big cities. Smaller towns, like smaller towns in every state including New York and California, still vote Republican. Last edited by Kelly Gruene; 04-27-2019 at 09:56 PM. |
#47
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#48
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#49
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I see California and Illinois are processing legislation in their state houses to keep Trump off the ballots in '20 unless he releases the last five years of tax returns. Can't make this stuff up.
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#50
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I think because Trump does as he pleases so it has started with people/states doing whatever they believe they can do. Like Trump or not, he has started a **** storm in Washington. I hate to see it because when Dems finally take office you better believe they will start acting a petulant child too. Trump lied 10,000 times in the open, Dems will lie 10,001. What a mess our country has become in that regard. Maybe it’s always been this way....I don’t know.
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