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  #76  
Old 10-31-2019, 10:14 AM
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Does Kelly have supporters? I haven't read too much praise on here over the years. I still think that college athletes need to be motivated. This is why I prefer a coach who can be tough, yet can motivate players to go beyond. Kelly is and will always be a CEO-like coach and not an emotional motivator. It works some times but when adversity hits, it usually becomes the antithesis of motivation. Sign me up for a motivator whenever Kelly decides to go pro.
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  #77  
Old 10-31-2019, 10:58 AM
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But he should beat someone of merit or at least be competitive. In 3 of their next 4 games, they play Penn St, Iowa, and Wisconsin. If they win 1 game and are competitive in the other 2, then maybe we can talk about him being the next big thing in coaching.
Pj fleck already did at western michigan what kelly did at Cincinnati. Every game he coaches at Minnesota in a power 5 arena adds to the advantages he has over kelly when he was hired at nd. I dont disagree that it would benefit him to win or be competitive in these big games but let's not act like hes less proven then bk was when they hired him. Aside from the grand valley stuff which I'll take minimal power 5 experience over extensive d2 experience
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  #78  
Old 10-31-2019, 01:52 PM
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Waiting to hear from the Kelly homers. Can't wait to hear all the excuses. The weather was bad...Michael Young...the Irish are young...next year is going to be our year...injuries...it was a hostile environment...it was dark out...the stadium lights were to bright...the TV annoucers have it in for ND...the game started to late...
Did I leave any excuses out???
When are people going to admit that with Kelly this is it.Decent regular season record (with 8-9 wins guaranteed thanks to a weak schedule), a decent bowl game and a nice payout for getting into the Pinstripe Bowl. Repeat season after season...Kelly pads his win loss record and ND keeps the money pouring in.
Iím a Kelly supporter. Doesnít mean I have to have some excuse for the way the team played on Saturday night.
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  #79  
Old 10-31-2019, 01:59 PM
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at the beginning of the year weren't we all saying that if ND can go 2-2 against UGA, USC, UM and Stanford while winning the rest of the games it would be a good season? well ND is on pace to do that and go 10-2 and we are still whining about it. have we forgotten what it was like going through the davie, Willingham and weis eras and averaging about 7.5 wins a year. yes ND played terrible against Michigan but it's nice to have ND winning again and putting together double digit win seasons again.
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Old 10-31-2019, 02:29 PM
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at the beginning of the year weren't we all saying that if ND can go 2-2 against UGA, USC, UM and Stanford while winning the rest of the games it would be a good season? well ND is on pace to do that and go 10-2 and we are still whining about it. have we forgotten what it was like going through the davie, Willingham and weis eras and averaging about 7.5 wins a year. yes ND played terrible against Michigan but it's nice to have ND winning again and putting together double digit win seasons again.
I was having a conversation with another attorney about this the other day, because I'm of the same mind as you, but at the same time, we started discussing possible replacements. There are some good options out there.

My top three would be Dave Clawson at Wake Forest, Luke Fickell at Cincy, and the guy at Iowa State. I've followed Clawson since he was at Richmond - he's very good. Give one of these guys a full cupboard and they could do very well. Fickell is a great recruiter and Cincy's defense looks amazing from what little I've seen. And, hell, if you can win at Iowa State, you can win anywhere.
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  #81  
Old 10-31-2019, 02:31 PM
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at the beginning of the year weren't we all saying that if ND can go 2-2 against UGA, USC, UM and Stanford while winning the rest of the games it would be a good season? well ND is on pace to do that and go 10-2 and we are still whining about it. have we forgotten what it was like going through the davie, Willingham and weis eras and averaging about 7.5 wins a year. yes ND played terrible against Michigan but it's nice to have ND winning again and putting together double digit win seasons again.
The difference - at least for me - is the way ND lost on Saturday. Unfortunately, I was there right behind the ND bench, and there was absolutely no fire whatsoever. They were sitting at 5-1, still in the Playoff conversation (although, I never thought they had more than a 5% chance of getting in), and playing one of their greatest rivals. The complete lack of motivation and competitive spirit was evident from the stands. When Herbstreit, who (almost) everyone respects, calls the team out for an embarrassing performance, that resonates nationally. All the respect ND earned against UGA just went out the window. If ND had lost 24-21 or something like that, I am sure there would be plenty of people wanting to fire BK, but I think the majority of reasonable fans would acknowledge that Michigan has equal talent to ND and they simply do not lose at home under Harbaugh. It's been a tough place to place for ND historically, so most could probably have lived with a close, hard fought loss. But the way they got blown out, the fact that they had absolutely no fight in the second half, and the play of Book are the main reasons for the dissatisfaction.

Before the season, I was saying 10-2 with a NY6 Bowl win would be a great season. That can absolutely happen. But this season is a disappointment because ND lost to the two best teams they played, and they got blown out/embarrassed on national tv against a team that has, at best, equal talent. In my opinion, ND can't come back from that. A 6-game win streak, including a NY6 Bowl win, would admittedly be great for the program and make this decade the most successful decade since the 70s (in terms of winning percentage). But winning the remaining games (no Top 25 teams) and a bowl game against SMU or Memphis or Boise State would not do it for me.

I have been a BK supporter mostly (minus 2016), but after Saturday, I am ready to admit that he is not the guy to take ND to elite status. I think he is a good coach, but he has shown time and again that he cannot win a big game. I definitely appreciate him for bringing ND out of the dark ages of Davie/Willingham/Weis - ND is a consistent 10-win program now. But it's nearly impossible to think that he is the coach to bring a national title to ND based on his history in big games and against elite teams. I don't have an answer for who should replace BK, but I don't think it matters. Maybe the next guy won't be as good as BK. But I'd rather take the chance that the next guy can compete with the elites then settle for BK who we know cannot.
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  #82  
Old 10-31-2019, 03:09 PM
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The difference - at least for me - is the way ND lost on Saturday. Unfortunately, I was there right behind the ND bench, and there was absolutely no fire whatsoever. They were sitting at 5-1, still in the Playoff conversation (although, I never thought they had more than a 5% chance of getting in), and playing one of their greatest rivals. The complete lack of motivation and competitive spirit was evident from the stands. When Herbstreit, who (almost) everyone respects, calls the team out for an embarrassing performance, that resonates nationally. All the respect ND earned against UGA just went out the window. If ND had lost 24-21 or something like that, I am sure there would be plenty of people wanting to fire BK, but I think the majority of reasonable fans would acknowledge that Michigan has equal talent to ND and they simply do not lose at home under Harbaugh. It's been a tough place to place for ND historically, so most could probably have lived with a close, hard fought loss. But the way they got blown out, the fact that they had absolutely no fight in the second half, and the play of Book are the main reasons for the dissatisfaction.

Before the season, I was saying 10-2 with a NY6 Bowl win would be a great season. That can absolutely happen. But this season is a disappointment because ND lost to the two best teams they played, and they got blown out/embarrassed on national tv against a team that has, at best, equal talent. In my opinion, ND can't come back from that. A 6-game win streak, including a NY6 Bowl win, would admittedly be great for the program and make this decade the most successful decade since the 70s (in terms of winning percentage). But winning the remaining games (no Top 25 teams) and a bowl game against SMU or Memphis or Boise State would not do it for me.

I have been a BK supporter mostly (minus 2016), but after Saturday, I am ready to admit that he is not the guy to take ND to elite status. I think he is a good coach, but he has shown time and again that he cannot win a big game. I definitely appreciate him for bringing ND out of the dark ages of Davie/Willingham/Weis - ND is a consistent 10-win program now. But it's nearly impossible to think that he is the coach to bring a national title to ND based on his history in big games and against elite teams. I don't have an answer for who should replace BK, but I don't think it matters. Maybe the next guy won't be as good as BK. But I'd rather take the chance that the next guy can compete with the elites then settle for BK who we know cannot.
Agree with everything you wrote. At this point, itís the blowout losses to any top team we play. Itís a TREND. I keep thinking we turn the corner, the Georgia game, then comes the Michigan game. Itís been like this with Bk. I canít take it anymore.
Trends are important. Ty had a trend. He would be competitive against good teams and even win some but would lose to the likes of a 3 win Pitt team. He was constantly fickle in knowing which way this team was trending.
Weisís trend came when his defenses couldnít compete. And the losses piled up and the team was completely shattered with all loss of hope.
Davies trend was the he just wasnít a good coach. Good d-coordinator but lacked everything else from what I can remember.
Either way, everyone of their times ran out and the fans knew when it was over. BKís time kinda fills that way for me. His one saving grace is that his predecessors were so bad. And that winning ten games a year and beating the bad teams, along with too 15 classes feels like thatís the best we can do now.

Anyway, BK seems to win the fan base by getting them into the playoff talks before completely losing the base with these terrible losses. I donít know how many more of these types of losses he has left.
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  #83  
Old 11-01-2019, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by goirish83 View Post
Pj fleck already did at western michigan what kelly did at Cincinnati. Every game he coaches at Minnesota in a power 5 arena adds to the advantages he has over kelly when he was hired at nd. I dont disagree that it would benefit him to win or be competitive in these big games but let's not act like hes less proven then bk was when they hired him. Aside from the grand valley stuff which I'll take minimal power 5 experience over extensive d2 experience
No he didnít. Kellyís Cincy teams went to back to back NY6 games.
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  #84  
Old 11-01-2019, 01:03 AM
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Agree with everything you wrote. At this point, itís the blowout losses to any top team we play. Itís a TREND. I keep thinking we turn the corner, the Georgia game, then comes the Michigan game. Itís been like this with Bk. I canít take it anymore.
Trends are important. Ty had a trend. He would be competitive against good teams and even win some but would lose to the likes of a 3 win Pitt team. He was constantly fickle in knowing which way this team was trending.
Weisís trend came when his defenses couldnít compete. And the losses piled up and the team was completely shattered with all loss of hope.
Davies trend was the he just wasnít a good coach. Good d-coordinator but lacked everything else from what I can remember.
Either way, everyone of their times ran out and the fans knew when it was over. BKís time kinda fills that way for me. His one saving grace is that his predecessors were so bad. And that winning ten games a year and beating the bad teams, along with too 15 classes feels like thatís the best we can do now.

Anyway, BK seems to win the fan base by getting them into the playoff talks before completely losing the base with these terrible losses. I donít know how many more of these types of losses he has left.
Itís fair that he would lose some goodwill, itís not fair to fire him.
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  #85  
Old 11-01-2019, 04:45 PM
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at the beginning of the year weren't we all saying that if ND can go 2-2 against UGA, USC, UM and Stanford while winning the rest of the games it would be a good season? well ND is on pace to do that and go 10-2 and we are still whining about it. have we forgotten what it was like going through the davie, Willingham and weis eras and averaging about 7.5 wins a year. yes ND played terrible against Michigan but it's nice to have ND winning again and putting together double digit win seasons again.
The problem with this is that it turned out USC and Stanford are both mediocre or worse and Michigan is going to finish 3rd on their side of the Big 10. Expectations change when it turns out teams on the schedule aren't as good.
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  #86  
Old 11-01-2019, 05:34 PM
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Does Kelly have supporters? I haven't read too much praise on here over the years. I still think that college athletes need to be motivated. This is why I prefer a coach who can be tough, yet can motivate players to go beyond. Kelly is and will always be a CEO-like coach and not an emotional motivator. It works some times but when adversity hits, it usually becomes the antithesis of motivation. Sign me up for a motivator whenever Kelly decides to go pro.
Second and third this...
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  #87  
Old 11-01-2019, 08:21 PM
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Does Kelly have supporters? I haven't read too much praise on here over the years. I still think that college athletes need to be motivated. This is why I prefer a coach who can be tough, yet can motivate players to go beyond. Kelly is and will always be a CEO-like coach and not an emotional motivator. It works some times but when adversity hits, it usually becomes the antithesis of motivation. Sign me up for a motivator whenever Kelly decides to go pro.
I don't think he has support so much as a smattering of fans who are just comfy with what he's getting done right now. Afraid of going back to Tinder and ruining a 75% solution.

It's comparable to a woman living with a guy who beats her every day for 20 years, ruins her credit, and hides drugs in the pantry. She finally gathers the courage to leave him and ends up engaging in brief stints with guys who are nice to the kids but who also disappear for days at a time.

Then she meets a new guy who is like 71 and ugly, but he takes her out on regular dinner dates, pays the bills, and does his best to get along with her kids. But when serious, life-altering issues arise in the family, he just camps out in the bedroom and watches House Hunters International and hopes everything ends up ok.
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  #88  
Old 11-01-2019, 08:58 PM
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I don't think he has support so much as a smattering of fans who are just comfy with what he's getting done right now. Afraid of going back to Tinder and ruining a 75% solution.

It's comparable to a woman living with a guy who beats her every day for 20 years, ruins her credit, and hides drugs in the pantry. She finally gathers the courage to leave him and ends up engaging in brief stints with guys who are nice to the kids but who also disappear for days at a time.

Then she meets a new guy who is like 71 and ugly, but he takes her out on regular dinner dates, pays the bills, and does his best to get along with her kids. But when serious, life-altering issues arise in the family, he just camps out in the bedroom and watches House Hunters International and hopes everything ends up ok.
Now there's an odd comparison.
But somehow strangely appropriate.
I like it!
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