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  #101  
Old 11-10-2019, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by golson5 View Post
We'll see where ped st ends up. Kelly beat a Michigan state team that finished the season ranked 3rd in the country and rose bowl champs. They finished 13 and 1. So that was way more impressive than this. Psu wil get waxed vs OSU and drop out of top 10
Kelly has 2 notable wins in 10 years.
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  #102  
Old 11-10-2019, 04:24 AM
golson5 golson5 is offline
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Im not sure how i can make this any clearer. Whatever BK has accomplished has been done at NOTRE DAME with light years more talent and resources...in a decade. Comparing that to what Fleck has done with MINNESOTA...in 3 years...is ridiculous.

Get it now?
No. Fleck hasnt done anything at Minnesota except win one big game. So what are you talking about. He took over a 9 win team and went 12 and 13 his first 2 years. He hasnt played anybody this season and he won a huge home game today. Other than that he hasnt done anything. Can I make that any clearer. They're schedule has been beyond a joke

Last edited by golson5; 11-10-2019 at 04:26 AM.
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  #103  
Old 11-10-2019, 04:28 AM
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No. Fleck hasnt done anything at Minnesota except win one big game. So what are you talking about. He took over a 9 win team and went 12 and 13 his first 2 years. He hasnt played anybody this season and he won a huge home game today. Other than that he hasnt done anything. Can I make that any clearer. They're schedule has been beyond a joke
Sigh...just forget it.
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  #104  
Old 11-10-2019, 02:27 PM
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Interesting stat I saw on the ESPN power rankings: Fleck is only the 9th coach in the last 40 years to win 6 games as an underdog at one school. What I wonder is how many other accomplished that feat midway through their third season? My guess is none.

People call the guy a ton of stuff but you can’t deny his ability to motivate kids.

Last edited by ndomer4; 11-10-2019 at 06:00 PM.
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  #105  
Old 11-10-2019, 02:34 PM
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Still like Campbell and Rhule a lot...
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  #106  
Old 11-10-2019, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ELDER06 View Post
They canít recruit a lot of kids bc of academics, thatís just the reality.
Simple question. Do you think that Kelly has recruited as well as any other coach could at ND?
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  #107  
Old 11-10-2019, 03:41 PM
jbrown_9999 jbrown_9999 is offline
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Theyíve lost close games vs elite teams. The Clemson and Michigan games were embarrassing, but it doesnít entirely erase the progress made.
Miami and Alabama were also embarrassing
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  #108  
Old 11-10-2019, 03:44 PM
Jim2Dokes Jim2Dokes is offline
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Iowaís gonna dominate MN next week. I think PSU was a good matchup for MN style of football, Iowa is not.
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  #109  
Old 11-10-2019, 03:50 PM
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Simple question. Do you think that Kelly has recruited as well as any other coach could at ND?
I do and donít bring up Weis who had nice recruits, but no depth. Kelly canít hire coached worth **** (eg Tommy Rees) and there are other issues I have with Kelly. I do believe he has done well in recruiting. You have proved with previous analogies that you need further education in CFB. Please be advised before responding (the whole army vs BK post). Letís just tone it down a bit.
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  #110  
Old 11-10-2019, 03:57 PM
Jim2Dokes Jim2Dokes is offline
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His best team was the 1999 team, which won the school's first outright Pacific-10 Conference title in 29 years and appeared in the 2000 Rose Bowl. Willingham's 44 wins were the most by a Stanford coach since John Ralston.

This guy needs to be hired! First PAC 10 title in 29 years! Amazing! This guys the goat. Letís all just take a breather, Bk ainít going anywhere so threads like these donít matter.
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  #111  
Old 11-10-2019, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim2Dokes View Post
His best team was the 1999 team, which won the school's first outright Pacific-10 Conference title in 29 years and appeared in the 2000 Rose Bowl. Willingham's 44 wins were the most by a Stanford coach since John Ralston.

This guy needs to be hired! First PAC 10 title in 29 years! Amazing! This guys the goat. Letís all just take a breather, Bk ainít going anywhere so threads like these donít matter.
I beg to differ. Kelly's teams tend to play a little better when he feels the heat. Like yesterday. The team finally played with a me against the world mentality, and it showed. For the first time ever under Kelly our o-line actually pushed people back all game. Also, when we complain enough and the higher ups finally get breath of our dispeasure, it trickles down. The firing of Longo and Van Gorder, the hirings of Lea, Elko, Long, and Balis. He was also on the brink of being fired after 2016 and he came back with a decent record in 2017. He had people believing after the Georgia loss, then came the yearly humiliation of a beat down- this time to Miami, then Stanford. Firings came up again and people complained he can't win a decent bowl game and he beat LSU. Next year, undefeated until the Clemson drubbing. People forgave and thought we turned again, especially after another close loss to Georgia, only to get our yearly beat down, this time by Michigan. See a trend. I suspect BK will win out the rest of the way including the bowl game against probably Boise.
Then the following year...when Clemson humiliates us, followed by a USC humiliation at the end of the year the chatter will start back up. It's so damn predictable its not even funny any more.
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  #112  
Old 11-10-2019, 04:11 PM
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Iowaís gonna dominate MN next week. I think PSU was a good matchup for MN style of football, Iowa is not.
I watched Iowa a few times this year. They are terrible. If Fleck is any good he'll beat them by two TD's. We'll see.
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  #113  
Old 11-10-2019, 04:21 PM
jbrown_9999 jbrown_9999 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim2Dokes View Post
I do and donít bring up Weis who had nice recruits, but no depth. Kelly canít hire coached worth **** (eg Tommy Rees) and there are other issues I have with Kelly. I do believe he has done well in recruiting. You have proved with previous analogies that you need further education in CFB. Please be advised before responding (the whole army vs BK post). Letís just tone it down a bit.
Jim, my question was not directed towards you but I'll ask a follow up.

Did you just say that Kelly recruits as well as any other coach could at ND including Meyer, Sweeney, etc.?

My point is that Kelly does not seem to have the reputation of being a relentless recruiter with lots of charisma. I do not believe that ND has hit it's ceiling for recruiting. If Kelly stepped up his game, he could probably improve his recruiting results from averaging Top 15 to Top 10.
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  #114  
Old 11-10-2019, 04:34 PM
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I beg to differ. Kelly's teams tend to play a little better when he feels the heat. Like yesterday. The team finally played with a me against the world mentality, and it showed. For the first time ever under Kelly our o-line actually pushed people back all game. Also, when we complain enough and the higher ups finally get breath of our dispeasure, it trickles down. The firing of Longo and Van Gorder, the hirings of Lea, Elko, Long, and Balis. He was also on the brink of being fired after 2016 and he came back with a decent record in 2017. He had people believing after the Georgia loss, then came the yearly humiliation of a beat down- this time to Miami, then Stanford. Firings came up again and people complained he can't win a decent bowl game and he beat LSU. Next year, undefeated until the Clemson drubbing. People forgave and thought we turned again, especially after another close loss to Georgia, only to get our yearly beat down, this time by Michigan. See a trend. I suspect BK will win out the rest of the way including the bowl game against probably Boise.
Then the following year...when Clemson humiliates us, followed by a USC humiliation at the end of the year the chatter will start back up. It's so damn predictable its not even funny any more.
It would be nice if Kelly acted as if he felt the heat all the time.
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  #115  
Old 11-10-2019, 04:36 PM
Jim2Dokes Jim2Dokes is offline
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Originally Posted by jbrown_9999 View Post
Jim, my question was not directed towards you but I'll ask a follow up.

Did you just say that Kelly recruits as well as any other coach could at ND including Meyer, Sweeney, etc.?

My point is that Kelly does not seem to have the reputation of being a relentless recruiter with lots of charisma. I do not believe that ND has hit it's ceiling for recruiting. If Kelly stepped up his game, he could probably improve his recruiting results from averaging Top 15 to Top 10.
He has a top qb, Rb, and wr coming in. What more do you want? Consistently recruits a top ol every year. The question is why do they recruit top qbs who always are bums. How is Phil not starting in year two. Those are my questions, not can any coach out recruit him. Maybe by a little, but if his top recruits donít see the field anyways does it matter?
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  #116  
Old 11-10-2019, 05:13 PM
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Anybody know how many ranked teams Fleck has beaten while at Minnesota before yesterday?

Zero.

He just got a huge win - not taking anything away from that. But let's pump the brakes on Fleck to ND.

Penn State was ranked #4. With the loss and another loss to OSU, they will be outside the Top 10 at season's end. And for those who think that it's still a win over a Top 5 team, please remember that Stanford was ranked #7 when ND beat them last year. Again, it's a great win, but it's his only win.

Also, did anybody pay attention to Minnesota before yesterday? They beat South Dakota State (FCS) by 7, Fresno State by 3 in Double OT, and Georgia Southern by 3. That's why they were 8-0 and still ranked #17 by the CFP Committee.

Maybe Fleck is a great head coach. But let's hold off judgment until he has a few more ranked wins under his belt and can have some sustained success at Minnesota. They were 5-7 in his first year and 7-6 last year. In the four years before he got there, Minnesota was 31-21. So, it's not like the program was struggling before he got there.
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  #117  
Old 11-10-2019, 05:20 PM
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This potential incoming class looks to be his best since his first couple years when he brought in multiple 5 star players. So far Iím giving him credit for this yearís recruiting, but wonder why has certain positions been neglected recruiting wise like RB. Iím on the fence about keeping Kelly. I look at him like I look at certain NBA teams.. they have the players to be a 5 or 6 seed in the playoffs, but never the talent to actually win a championship. So these teams sell off the assets to try and rebuild. Do we get rid of Kelly for the potential next great coach? He could also flounder and bring us back to Wise level, or could be the next great coach and potentially bring us a title. Or do we keep Kelly, for 9-3 or 10-2 almost every year, but no real shot at winning with our talent? Iím a reach for the stars guy myself so would like to see a regime change if we could get a Fleck or next up and comer . I donít think very good established power 5 coaches will flock to ND like they used to. Personally I think Fleck is the real deal. He needs to get better at in game management. But he is doing this at Minnesota, not Cincinnati. He is recruiting against other Big Ten teams and doing very well for Minnesota standards. Players that would have automatically been going to Wisconsin are now choosing Minnesota. Thatís huge for that program .
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  #118  
Old 11-10-2019, 05:40 PM
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Still like Campbell and Rhule a lot...
Campbell, yes. Rhule is off to the NFL, no doubt. Wouldn’t mind catching him on the rebound if it doesn’t work out. If anyone watched ISU v Ok last night, you’d see: (1) they got screwed on the no call PI on the 2 pt conversion, and (2) his players never quit on a game. I still wouldn’t fire Kelly for him, but he’d be my top choice if ND can get him in a few yrs.

Last edited by ELDER06; 11-10-2019 at 06:25 PM.
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  #119  
Old 11-10-2019, 05:41 PM
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Anybody know how many ranked teams Fleck has beaten while at Minnesota before yesterday?

Zero.

He just got a huge win - not taking anything away from that. But let's pump the brakes on Fleck to ND.

Penn State was ranked #4. With the loss and another loss to OSU, they will be outside the Top 10 at season's end. And for those who think that it's still a win over a Top 5 team, please remember that Stanford was ranked #7 when ND beat them last year. Again, it's a great win, but it's his only win.

Also, did anybody pay attention to Minnesota before yesterday? They beat South Dakota State (FCS) by 7, Fresno State by 3 in Double OT, and Georgia Southern by 3. That's why they were 8-0 and still ranked #17 by the CFP Committee.

Maybe Fleck is a great head coach. But let's hold off judgment until he has a few more ranked wins under his belt and can have some sustained success at Minnesota. They were 5-7 in his first year and 7-6 last year. In the four years before he got there, Minnesota was 31-21. So, it's not like the program was struggling before he got there.
Thank you. This is almost as bad as the idiots who want Deion to be coach at FSU. People get so easily manipulated by the media storm.
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  #120  
Old 11-10-2019, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by tneun89 View Post
Anybody know how many ranked teams Fleck has beaten while at Minnesota before yesterday?

Zero.

He just got a huge win - not taking anything away from that. But let's pump the brakes on Fleck to ND.

Penn State was ranked #4. With the loss and another loss to OSU, they will be outside the Top 10 at season's end. And for those who think that it's still a win over a Top 5 team, please remember that Stanford was ranked #7 when ND beat them last year. Again, it's a great win, but it's his only win.

Also, did anybody pay attention to Minnesota before yesterday? They beat South Dakota State (FCS) by 7, Fresno State by 3 in Double OT, and Georgia Southern by 3. That's why they were 8-0 and still ranked #17 by the CFP Committee.

Maybe Fleck is a great head coach. But let's hold off judgment until he has a few more ranked wins under his belt and can have some sustained success at Minnesota. They were 5-7 in his first year and 7-6 last year. In the four years before he got there, Minnesota was 31-21. So, it's not like the program was struggling before he got there.
True but he has won 6 times as an underdog in 2.5 years, how many times has Kelly in 10 years? He is getting more out of his players and they are getting up for big games where they are overmatched.

Sure he had some struggles earlier in the year but we went to the playoffs after beating Ball State by 8 at home.... the sign of a good coach is a team improving throughout the year. Both are good coaches but I feel Fleck has potential to be special. Heís got a similar charisma to Dabo and the kids love it.
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  #121  
Old 11-10-2019, 06:23 PM
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True but he has won 6 times as an underdog in 2.5 years, how many times has Kelly in 10 years? He is getting more out of his players and they are getting up for big games where they are overmatched.

Sure he had some struggles earlier in the year but we went to the playoffs after beating Ball State by 8 at home.... the sign of a good coach is a team improving throughout the year. Both are good coaches but I feel Fleck has potential to be special. Heís got a similar charisma to Dabo and the kids love it.
Itís easy so be the underdog when you coach at MN.
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  #122  
Old 11-10-2019, 06:27 PM
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True but he has won 6 times as an underdog in 2.5 years, how many times has Kelly in 10 years? He is getting more out of his players and they are getting up for big games where they are overmatched.

Sure he had some struggles earlier in the year but we went to the playoffs after beating Ball State by 8 at home.... the sign of a good coach is a team improving throughout the year. Both are good coaches but I feel Fleck has potential to be special. Heís got a similar charisma to Dabo and the kids love it.
I honestly don't disagree with anything you said here. Teams definitely improve over the course of the season (unless you're 2014 Notre Dame), so props to him for getting Minnesota up for their biggest game in 50 years. Again, not taking anything away from him, I just want to see a bit more sustained success from him at Minnesota. Like I said, that was his first ranked win in 3 years. If he can take Minnesota to a NY6 or Outback Bowl and win, I would be really impressed. Just need to see him win a few more of these types of games.
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  #123  
Old 11-10-2019, 06:33 PM
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I honestly don't disagree with anything you said here. Teams definitely improve over the course of the season (unless you're 2014 Notre Dame), so props to him for getting Minnesota up for their biggest game in 50 years. Again, not taking anything away from him, I just want to see a bit more sustained success from him at Minnesota. Like I said, that was his first ranked win in 3 years. If he can take Minnesota to a NY6 or Outback Bowl and win, I would be really impressed. Just need to see him win a few more of these types of games.
Yeah I agree with everything you have said here. Sometimes you need to snatch these coaches up before someone else gets them. If he ends up at a USC, FSU or Tennessee and has success then it will be very tough to see.

There’s 4 up and comers who just need that elite job to show they can be elite. Clawson, Rhule, Fleck and Campbell. Not all will turn out but I’m sure one will.
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  #124  
Old 11-10-2019, 06:41 PM
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How awesome would it be to play Minnesota in a bowl. Oh the humanity..
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  #125  
Old 11-10-2019, 06:42 PM
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How awesome would it be to play Minnesota in a bowl. Oh the humanity..
I wouldn’t mind.
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