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Old 04-27-2019, 03:59 AM
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Default How Far ND FB has come



ND has made good progress I thought this video was fair. ND has the hardest part of the hill left to climb but at least can see the summit now.
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Old 04-28-2019, 06:13 PM
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10 yrs ago, we thought the win in the Hawaii Bowl was a big deal. Kelly has made some bad mistakes, but he deserves credit for getting ND to this point. However, I’d argue getting to the summit will be the toughest part. Getting on Bama and Clemson’s Level even for just a season will be a Herculean effort with the constrains on the Program.
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Old 04-28-2019, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ELDER06 View Post
10 yrs ago, we thought the win in the Hawaii Bowl was a big deal. Kelly has made some bad mistakes, but he deserves credit for getting ND to this point. However, I’d argue getting to the summit will be the toughest part. Getting on Bama and Clemson’s Level even for just a season will be a Herculean effort with the constrains on the Program.
Couldn’t agree more. We were so excited about thrashing Hawaii and the boards were in pure jubilation that night. If we beat Hawaii 49-21 now, people would be calling for heads to roll for giving up 21 points to Hawaii. That’s the difference.

But we’re at the very top of the level just beneath the elite - Alabama, Clemson and Ohio State. We’re about a top 5 program with Georgia and Oklahoma trying to fight off Washington’s, Michigan’s, Stanford’s and the like. That next step into the top tier may prove impossible without elite quarterback play to combat the talent differential elsewhere.
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Old 04-28-2019, 11:30 PM
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Couldn’t agree more. We were so excited about thrashing Hawaii and the boards were in pure jubilation that night. If we beat Hawaii 49-21 now, people would be calling for heads to roll for giving up 21 points to Hawaii. That’s the difference.

But we’re at the very top of the level just beneath the elite - Alabama, Clemson and Ohio State. We’re about a top 5 program with Georgia and Oklahoma trying to fight off Washington’s, Michigan’s, Stanford’s and the like. That next step into the top tier may prove impossible without elite quarterback play to combat the talent differential elsewhere.
Top 5 is a little high, but definitely top 10. Undoubtedly, the ultimate goal is to win a National Title. They won’t be contenders every yr like the truly elite, but there has to be one Yr where they have a legit shot. The Cotton Bowl showed us they have a long way to go to get to that level, but at least they’re moving in the right direction.

Last edited by ELDER06; 04-28-2019 at 11:32 PM.
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Old 04-28-2019, 11:39 PM
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10 yrs ago, we thought the win in the Hawaii Bowl was a big deal. Kelly has made some bad mistakes, but he deserves credit for getting ND to this point. However, I’d argue getting to the summit will be the toughest part. Getting on Bama and Clemson’s Level even for just a season will be a Herculean effort with the constrains on the Program.
Totally agree. It bothered me that Kelly was allowed to learn on the job. I believe if Urban or Dabo got the ND job 9 years ago they would have already reached the summit. Obviously, I hope Kelly can win an NC at ND but he is going to have to hold on to key assistant coaches and start winning more recruiting battles for skill players with Oklahoma, Ohio State and other big boy programs. It is definitely better now than anytime during the Davie, Willingham and Weis eras.
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Old 04-28-2019, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ELDER06 View Post
10 yrs ago, we thought the win in the Hawaii Bowl was a big deal. Kelly has made some bad mistakes, but he deserves credit for getting ND to this point. However, I’d argue getting to the summit will be the toughest part. Getting on Bama and Clemson’s Level even for just a season will be a Herculean effort with the constrains on the Program.
you and I are on the same page, the hardest part of the hill is yet to climb. But we are more consistently in sight of the summit so we can get used to playing the clemsons and Bama's but we need to get a few more recruits like them and get a little lucky and cool things could happen.
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Old 04-28-2019, 11:50 PM
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Totally agree. It bothered me that Kelly was allowed to learn on the job. I believe if Urban or Dabo got the ND job 9 years ago they would have already reached the summit. Obviously, I hope Kelly can win an NC at ND but he is going to have to hold on to key assistant coaches and start winning more recruiting battles for skill players with Oklahoma, Ohio State and other big boy programs. It is definitely better now than anytime during the Davie, Willingham and Weis eras.
I do question if Meyer would have stuck around long enough or if he woulda won one, put us on NCAA Probation or something for recruiting violations and then left for another school.
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Old 04-29-2019, 12:27 AM
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Totally agree. It bothered me that Kelly was allowed to learn on the job. I believe if Urban or Dabo got the ND job 9 years ago they would have already reached the summit. Obviously, I hope Kelly can win an NC at ND but he is going to have to hold on to key assistant coaches and start winning more recruiting battles for skill players with Oklahoma, Ohio State and other big boy programs. It is definitely better now than anytime during the Davie, Willingham and Weis eras.
Note that Dabo had to learn on the job himself. The difference is that he was a first time head coach not one with 20+ years of head coaching experience.
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Old 04-29-2019, 04:39 PM
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I agree that Dabo also had to learn on the job but Clemson only had 1 NC in it's history when he took the job while ND had 11 when Kelly started at ND. Expectations at ND were always higher than those at Clemson until the past 4 years.
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Old 04-29-2019, 05:07 PM
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I agree that Dabo also had to learn on the job but Clemson only had 1 NC in it's history when he took the job while ND had 11 when Kelly started at ND. Expectations at ND were always higher than those at Clemson until the past 4 years.
Until the 2015/2016 Title game where they gave Bama all they could handle, they were looked at as choke artists. We all remember the term “ Clemsoning.” I think ND’s next big step is actually being competitive in a playoff game, not just the Regular Season.
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Old 04-29-2019, 10:40 PM
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Until the 2015/2016 Title game where they gave Bama all they could handle, they were looked at as choke artists. We all remember the term “ Clemsoning.” I think ND’s next big step is actually being competitive in a playoff game, not just the Regular Season.
So is "being competitive" another nine years? Then winning a playoff game nine more years after that?
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Old 04-30-2019, 12:51 AM
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Here’s a stat.

1995-2011: 4 first round picks.
2012-2019: 9 first round picks.
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Old 04-30-2019, 11:27 PM
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I have been having fun the 5 or so years. We kick the but of all the teams we should be kicking.

We need to get to the final level.
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Old 05-01-2019, 01:42 AM
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So is "being competitive" another nine years? Then winning a playoff game nine more years after that?
IDK, I don’t think so. However, it’s critical to remain a consistent Top 10 team in yrs where they don’t make the playoffs. I don’t think they’ll be in the Playoff Hunt this Yr, but they need to win 10 games. It wouldn’t hurt to win a NY Bowl Game, but with an increasing # of high profile players sitting out, Bowl Games don’t mean that much.
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Old 05-08-2019, 03:15 PM
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Missing from the video is the change in the Strength and Conditioning staff. It was in disarray and the new staff is a major step up.
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Old 05-08-2019, 04:59 PM
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Missing from the video is the change in the Strength and Conditioning staff. It was in disarray and the new staff is a major step up.
I was clamoring for this after the second season with BK. It always looked like our guys ate Cheerios for breakfast. Lots of baby fat bloated stomachs on our linemen. Much better look with arms more defined. Kudos to the staff for this hire.
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:08 AM
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Default Alabama first round NFL picks

Alabama has had 19 first round NFL picks 2012-2019.
They also had 14 second round NFL picks same period.
ND, needs to ramp up the recruiting BIG time to even get close to top 5.
They need one or two five stars every year, and 12-14 four stars every year.
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:18 AM
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Default Here is the recruiting difference

I posted this back in January. Like I said, we have to RAMP up recruiting, BIG time. Per Rivals. com. 2016-2019. Bama avg. 4.5 five stars per year and 15 four stars. Clemson, 3.5 five stars and 8 four stars. OSU, Georgia even better than Dabbo. 3-4 four stars and 13+ four stars. ND no five stars at all and 9 four stars per year.

1. Alabama 18 five stars and 62 four stars 2016-2019

2. Georgia 16 five stars and 55 four stars

3. Clemson 14 five stars and 34 four stars

4. OSU 12 five stars and 54 four stars

5. LSU 7 five stars and 46 four stars

6. Oklahoma 5 five stars and 53 four stars

7. Florida State 7 five stars and 51 four stars

8. Michigan 5 five stars and 52 four stars

9. Texas AM 3 five stars and 49 four stars

10. Penn State 4 five stars and 44 four stars

11. Texas 1 five star and 52 four stars

NOTRE DAME zero five stars and 35 four stars
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:15 PM
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I posted this back in January. Like I said, we have to RAMP up recruiting, BIG time. Per Rivals. com. 2016-2019. Bama avg. 4.5 five stars per year and 15 four stars. Clemson, 3.5 five stars and 8 four stars. OSU, Georgia even better than Dabbo. 3-4 four stars and 13+ four stars. ND no five stars at all and 9 four stars per year.

1. Alabama 18 five stars and 62 four stars 2016-2019

2. Georgia 16 five stars and 55 four stars

3. Clemson 14 five stars and 34 four stars

4. OSU 12 five stars and 54 four stars

5. LSU 7 five stars and 46 four stars

6. Oklahoma 5 five stars and 53 four stars

7. Florida State 7 five stars and 51 four stars

8. Michigan 5 five stars and 52 four stars

9. Texas AM 3 five stars and 49 four stars

10. Penn State 4 five stars and 44 four stars

11. Texas 1 five star and 52 four stars

NOTRE DAME zero five stars and 35 four stars
For what it worth, I think that 2020 may finally be the first step of elevated recruiting. At the moment, 5 out of 10 commits are 247 Top 150 recruits. That compares to 7 out of 27 in 2018 and 3 out of 22 in 2019.

Success begets success. If Kelly can continue to win at a 10 win level, ND's recruiting should move up to Top 5 to Top 10 rather than Top 10 to Top 15. I do not think that Kelly can consistently recruit Top 5 classes at ND even though I think that it is possible given the right coach.
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Old 05-15-2019, 06:36 PM
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I posted this back in January. Like I said, we have to RAMP up recruiting, BIG time. Per Rivals. com. 2016-2019. Bama avg. 4.5 five stars per year and 15 four stars. Clemson, 3.5 five stars and 8 four stars. OSU, Georgia even better than Dabbo. 3-4 four stars and 13+ four stars. ND no five stars at all and 9 four stars per year.

1. Alabama 18 five stars and 62 four stars 2016-2019

2. Georgia 16 five stars and 55 four stars

3. Clemson 14 five stars and 34 four stars

4. OSU 12 five stars and 54 four stars

5. LSU 7 five stars and 46 four stars

6. Oklahoma 5 five stars and 53 four stars

7. Florida State 7 five stars and 51 four stars

8. Michigan 5 five stars and 52 four stars

9. Texas AM 3 five stars and 49 four stars

10. Penn State 4 five stars and 44 four stars

11. Texas 1 five star and 52 four stars

NOTRE DAME zero five stars and 35 four stars
I think you may have missed a class. From 2016-2019 (4 classes), ND landed 44 four stars and 1 five star (Daelin Hayes), per Rivals.

I agree, ND needs to land more top level talent (they have a real shot to do so in 2020 - will probably land 5-7 Top 100 guys), but they will never compare to Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State. They just won't. ND should always have a Top 10 class IMO, with a Top 5 class sprinkled in every 3-4 years. But there is just too much going against them to consistently land Top 3-level classes (academics, location, weather, girls, NFL prospects, religion, etc.). ND is in good shape this year because there are a ton of profile fits in the Top 100 - now they just need to land them.
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:04 AM
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I posted this back in January. Like I said, we have to RAMP up recruiting, BIG time. Per Rivals. com. 2016-2019. Bama avg. 4.5 five stars per year and 15 four stars. Clemson, 3.5 five stars and 8 four stars. OSU, Georgia even better than Dabbo. 3-4 four stars and 13+ four stars. ND no five stars at all and 9 four stars per year.

1. Alabama 18 five stars and 62 four stars 2016-2019

2. Georgia 16 five stars and 55 four stars

3. Clemson 14 five stars and 34 four stars

4. OSU 12 five stars and 54 four stars

5. LSU 7 five stars and 46 four stars

6. Oklahoma 5 five stars and 53 four stars

7. Florida State 7 five stars and 51 four stars

8. Michigan 5 five stars and 52 four stars

9. Texas AM 3 five stars and 49 four stars

10. Penn State 4 five stars and 44 four stars

11. Texas 1 five star and 52 four stars

NOTRE DAME zero five stars and 35 four stars
Yet we’re still 3-2 vs the teams here we’ve played since 2016. Regardless it would sure help if we could get some more 5 stars, unfortunately most don’t want to work in the classroom.
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:54 PM
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Yet we’re still 3-2 vs the teams here we’ve played since 2016. Regardless it would sure help if we could get some more 5 stars, unfortunately most don’t want to work in the classroom.
0-5 against those top three the last time we’ve played those three. As I mentioned in the past. We need to get at least one five star every class. Or every one. Then we should be ok.
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Old 05-16-2019, 06:09 PM
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I think you may have missed a class. From 2016-2019 (4 classes), ND landed 44 four stars and 1 five star (Daelin Hayes), per Rivals.

I agree, ND needs to land more top level talent (they have a real shot to do so in 2020 - will probably land 5-7 Top 100 guys), but they will never compare to Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State. They just won't. ND should always have a Top 10 class IMO, with a Top 5 class sprinkled in every 3-4 years. But there is just too much going against them to consistently land Top 3-level classes (academics, location, weather, girls, NFL prospects, religion, etc.). ND is in good shape this year because there are a ton of profile fits in the Top 100 - now they just need to land them.
Just wanted to point out that the number one criteria for recruiting top classes is the head coach. Right now it's Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio St. In 2004, It was Southern Cal, Florida St, and Miami.

Did academics, location, weather, girls, NFL prospects, religion change for these schools over 15 years? (Maybe NFL prospects changed for each school but that leads me to the following sentence)

There are probably 15 to 20 schools that can consistently recruit well but who can only be Top 5 WITH THE RIGHT COACH.

Before Saban, Alabama recruited below Top 5. Dabo has just really moved into Top 5.

Here is Ohio St rankings by year:

2001 - 6 (Head Coach = Cooper/Tressel)
2002 - 4 (Head Coach = Tressel)
2003 - 46 (Head Coach = Tressel - won championship in 2002)
2004 - 55 (Head Coach = Tressel)
2005 - 74 (Head Coach = Tressel)
2006 - 25 (Head Coach = Tressel)
2007 - 75 (Head Coach = Tressel)
2008 - 10 (Head Coach = Tressel)
2009 - 5 (Head Coach = Tressel)
2010 - 18 (Head Coach = Tressel)
2011 - 6 (Head Coach = Tressel/Fickle)
2012 - 5 (Head Coach = Fickle/Meyer)
2013 - 2 (Head Coach = Meyer)
2014 - 3 (Head Coach = Meyer)
2015 - 7 (Head Coach = Meyer - won championship in 2014)
2016 - 4 (Head Coach = Meyer)
2017 - 2 (Head Coach = Meyer)
2018 - 2 (Head Coach = Meyer)
2019 - 14 (Head Coach = Day)
2020 - 11 (Head Coach = Day)

My point is that ND may be able to recruit in the Top 5. It just might take a different head coach to do so. At the moment, ND has a Top 10/Top 15 recruiting coach who hopefully will move up to a Top5/Top 10 recruiter from 2020 onward.

Also note that since schools move up and down in the rankings each year, Notre Dame averages around the 8th best recruiting school over a 4-5 year window even though their classes have been Top 10 to Top 15 each year. So, recruiting Top 5 to Top 10 each year should put ND on the cusp of recruiting Top 5 on average.
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Old 05-17-2019, 12:55 PM
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5*'s are great, but they also have to be the right fit for ND, or else it causes issues down the road. Lynch was awesome, but leaving after two years just leaves a gap in the depth chart. Same with Kiel, Bryant, etc. Great talents, but not great fits for the school.

But give me a bunch of Jaylon Smith's all day. That is where I feel Kelly has gotten better, realizing that talent matters, but the proper talent for ND matters even more.
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Old 05-17-2019, 06:54 PM
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5*'s are great, but they also have to be the right fit for ND, or else it causes issues down the road. Lynch was awesome, but leaving after two years just leaves a gap in the depth chart. Same with Kiel, Bryant, etc. Great talents, but not great fits for the school.

But give me a bunch of Jaylon Smith's all day. That is where I feel Kelly has gotten better, realizing that talent matters, but the proper talent for ND matters even more.
I completely agree! Very well said!
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