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  #26  
Old 06-15-2016, 01:01 PM
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Pretty interesting article up in my nape of the woods...

http://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/t...nt?oid=3421127

I'm not sure this completely supports either end of the argument...on the one hand this is just completely way too loose to be legal, but on the other hand does this just highlight how easy it would be to get your hands on one anyway? I'm not sure scrawny meth-head parking lot gun salesman wouldn't complete the same transaction if this wasn't completely legal.

I'd probably lean towards some type of stricter sales laws, but I have no idea what would even work...so I think we're just stuck.
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  #27  
Old 06-15-2016, 02:21 PM
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Echo has several good points, namely: the need for a set of laws at the federal level that applies equally to each state, biometric security and also the intolerance of the NRA to any kind of firearm regulation.

I don't see the need for anyone to own assault rifles. I am not against gun ownership, but believe they should be regulated and licensed. There is a right to bear arms, but it is not unlimited. Joe Schmo shouldn't be able to walk into a gun shop and purchase any kind of weapon, no questions asked.

It seems that as incidents as Orlando and Sandy Hook become more common, we do nothing to even try to find any remedy for these mass murders.

I have traveled quite extensively and the one thing that people from other countries have a difficult time understanding is the obsession with guns in America. I have an equally difficult time trying to explain it. Could it be an example of "American "Exceptionalism"?
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  #28  
Old 06-15-2016, 03:37 PM
Kelly Gruene Kelly Gruene is offline
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Gun or not, if someone start shooting a sane person is gonna seek shelter first. Not sure crossfire would be safer.
Crossfire probably wouldn't be particularly safe. But, the shooter probably starts shooting while standing near one exit, and the concealed carry guy is probably somewhere in the theater. The first shooter would probably be distracted and either shoot at the concealed carry guy or leave. The rest of us would of course duck and try to head toward the uncovered exit. The less someone is shooting directly at me, the safer I'm going to be, crossfire or not.
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  #29  
Old 06-15-2016, 04:38 PM
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The less someone is shooting directly at me, the safer I'm going to be, crossfire or not.
Amen brother. You'd also be safer if the shooters had to reload more often.
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  #30  
Old 06-15-2016, 04:43 PM
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Amen brother. You'd also be safer if the shooters had to reload more often.
over 100 people shot by a guy with a sig mpx...I'm sure he reloaded multiple times, but that didn't help the people at Pulse very much did it?
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  #31  
Old 06-15-2016, 04:54 PM
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over 100 people shot by a guy with a sig mpx...I'm sure he reloaded multiple times, but that didn't help the people at Pulse very much did it?
Slight correction, it was an mcx not mpx. The mpx comes in 40, 9mm or 357sig i think. Its only available as a pistol configuration to civilians, but can be SBRed to have a buttstock if you send a 200 check to uncle sugar and ask for permission.
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Old 06-15-2016, 04:55 PM
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Slight correction, it was an mcx not mpx. The mpx comes in 40, 9mm or 357sig i think. Its only available as a pistol configuration to civilians, but can be SBRed to have a buttstock if you send a 200 check to uncle sugar and ask for permission.
ah, my bad...thank you!
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  #33  
Old 06-15-2016, 05:06 PM
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I have traveled quite extensively and the one thing that people from other countries have a difficult time understanding is the obsession with guns in America. I have an equally difficult time trying to explain it. Could it be an example of "American "Exceptionalism"?
I work for a spine clinic and we have doctors from all over the world and this same very subject comes up frequently. Word for word as you said.
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  #34  
Old 06-15-2016, 05:08 PM
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ah, my bad...thank you!
Another fun fact. The MCX isnt an AR15 variant rifle. The internals are all different. Its a whole different weapons system.
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  #35  
Old 06-15-2016, 08:38 PM
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You gun guys all seem to have these ready made, bumper dticker responses. Why would someone want to break in your house and harm your family? Are you in witness protection?
So in other words what I have done to deserve to be a victim? The difference between you and I is that I am hoping for the best but preparing for the worst.

I wonder what these people did to provoke or deserve what happened to them? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshi...vasion_murders

Or like Nick said, a school, or a nightclub, or a place of employment? I don't think everyone needs to carry a gun, I don't think that everyone needs to sleep with a gun under their pillow and I understand the inherit danger of guns in the world, but I believe there is evil in this world and I am going to do what I can to protect my family.

When I was in the fourth grade I came home from school and walked in on someone robbing my house. They made me go to my room and count to 100, I remember my neighbor heard some of the activity and came over with a gun and chased off the burglar. Chances are the guy just wanted to take what he could and take off, but whose to say he might not have stabbed or shot and killed me if my neighbor had not come along?

That doesn't mean I am obsessed with guns, I don't think anyone here is, but I encourage the use and knowledge of them, and I encourage every capable and responsible person to own one. Never know when you might need to protect yourself, or maybe even your unarmed neighbor.
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  #36  
Old 06-15-2016, 09:29 PM
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Here's a post from ScotchIrishBlooded over on the Rivals board:

Sadly after every incident like Orlando, the immediate knee-jerk reaction is to talk about how we Americans are obsessed with guns. Fair enough in the sense that WE are obsessed with guns. Americans are gun crazy. No one owns more guns than we Americans. We are #1 in the world where gun ownership is considered. Fact: America has 90 guns for every 100 citizens in this country. Over 300 million. We own more guns than we do cars. More homes have a gun than have internet access.

But let’s put that statistic in perspective. There’s more to it and it isn’t talked about. Politicians and journalists would lead you to believe that “higher gun availability” means “higher rate of gun deaths”. Nothing could be further from the truth.

For example, despite being #1 in the world for gun ownership, America doesn’t even rank in the Top 100 countries for homicides. Out 218 countries and territories, the US is #112 with a murder rate of 3.8 murders per 100,000 people (2015 UNODC).

Let’s take it a step further. If you ONLY look at the deaths that are gun related America is at the LOWEST rate since the 1990’s and almost exactly where the US was in 1915.

Now take out the gun related deaths that aren’t crime related. For example, 64% of all gun deaths in the US are suicides. Another 4% are justifiable shootings.

Furthermore, take out the gang related shootings (where no laws would affect I might add) and the US has a gun related death rate of 2.0 per 100,000 people. A far cry from the perspective the liberal media would have you believe.

Here’s another FACT: most of the guns owned by Americans have never been shot outside of a firing range and will never be fired at another human being. The media doesn’t want you to know that because it doesn’t fit their narrative.

I actually agree with Hillary about this. Common sense tells me that any terrorist on the watch list should be denied gun ownership. Any one on the no fly list should be denied gun ownership. Anyone being investigated by the FBI (including Hillary) should be denied gun ownership.

That said, I just don't see any logic in solutions that involve penalizing the millions of legal, law-abiding citizens over the actions of a tiny minority especially when you consider that their actions are usually driven by religious fundamentalism, hate or mental illness.
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  #37  
Old 06-16-2016, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by jessemoore97 View Post
Here's a post from ScotchIrishBlooded over on the Rivals board:
Fact: America has 90 guns for every 100 citizens in this country. Over 300 million. We own more guns than we do cars. More homes have a gun than have internet access.

But let’s put that statistic in perspective.

For example, despite being #1 in the world for gun ownership, America doesn’t even rank in the Top 100 countries for homicides. Out 218 countries and territories, the US is #112 with a murder rate of 3.8 murders per 100,000 people (2015 UNODC).

Let’s take it a step further. If you ONLY look at the deaths that are gun related America is at the LOWEST rate since the 1990’s and almost exactly where the US was in 1915.

Now take out the gun related deaths that aren’t crime related. For example, 64% of all gun deaths in the US are suicides. Another 4% are justifiable shootings.

Furthermore, take out the gang related shootings (where no laws would affect I might add) and the US has a gun related death rate of 2.0 per 100,000 people. A far cry from the perspective the liberal media would have you believe.

Here’s another FACT: most of the guns owned by Americans have never been shot outside of a firing range and will never be fired at another human being. The media doesn’t want you to know that because it doesn’t fit their narrative.
Interesting.
Take a look at the World Bank website: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5

Let's put some more perspective on murder rates/100,000 by geographic area:
Honduras 91, Venezuela 54, Jamaica 39, Guatemala 35, Trinidad and Tobago 28, Brazil 27, Mexico 22, Panama 17, Ecuador 12, Nicaragua 11, Peru 10, Paraguay 10, US 5, Canada 2

How about: Afghanistan 6, Saudi Arabia 6, Iran 5, Lebanon 4, Turkey 4, Libya 3, West Bank/Gaza 1.

And then there's: Belgium 2, United Kingdom 1, France 1, Poland 1, Portugal 1, Netherlands 1, Denmark 1, Greece 1. Russia? 9

And finally: North Korea 5, South Korea 1, Japan 0
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  #38  
Old 06-16-2016, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by jessemoore97 View Post
Here's a post from ScotchIrishBlooded over on the Rivals board:

Sadly after every incident like Orlando, the immediate knee-jerk reaction is to talk about how we Americans are obsessed with guns. Fair enough in the sense that WE are obsessed with guns. Americans are gun crazy. No one owns more guns than we Americans. We are #1 in the world where gun ownership is considered. Fact: America has 90 guns for every 100 citizens in this country. Over 300 million. We own more guns than we do cars. More homes have a gun than have internet access.

But let’s put that statistic in perspective. There’s more to it and it isn’t talked about. Politicians and journalists would lead you to believe that “higher gun availability” means “higher rate of gun deaths”. Nothing could be further from the truth.

For example, despite being #1 in the world for gun ownership, America doesn’t even rank in the Top 100 countries for homicides. Out 218 countries and territories, the US is #112 with a murder rate of 3.8 murders per 100,000 people (2015 UNODC).

Let’s take it a step further. If you ONLY look at the deaths that are gun related America is at the LOWEST rate since the 1990’s and almost exactly where the US was in 1915.

Now take out the gun related deaths that aren’t crime related. For example, 64% of all gun deaths in the US are suicides. Another 4% are justifiable shootings.

Furthermore, take out the gang related shootings (where no laws would affect I might add) and the US has a gun related death rate of 2.0 per 100,000 people. A far cry from the perspective the liberal media would have you believe.

Here’s another FACT: most of the guns owned by Americans have never been shot outside of a firing range and will never be fired at another human being. The media doesn’t want you to know that because it doesn’t fit their narrative.

I actually agree with Hillary about this. Common sense tells me that any terrorist on the watch list should be denied gun ownership. Any one on the no fly list should be denied gun ownership. Anyone being investigated by the FBI (including Hillary) should be denied gun ownership.

That said, I just don't see any logic in solutions that involve penalizing the millions of legal, law-abiding citizens over the actions of a tiny minority especially when you consider that their actions are usually driven by religious fundamentalism, hate or mental illness.
Look that is lovely and all but it doesn't really tackle what gun control activists are asking for - stricter background checks. You can still buy hundreds and hundreds of guns, fill your entire house up with guns and ammo for all I care. It is the complete unwillingness to allow any reason into implementing some fair and logical checks that people who may not be suitable to buy guns. It is harder to buy alcohol that it is to buy a gun and that doesn't make much sense.

Nobody is going to take your guns, it would just be nice to not read on the news that a suspected terrorist was able to buy his guns legally and mow down 49 people in cold blood. The NRA are not about your second amendment rights, they are a gun lobby financed by gun manufacturers to make money. They have lining their own pockets at heart, not your rights. They are even holding supreme court nominees up as they have become so entwined in Washington it is disgusting to watch.
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  #39  
Old 06-16-2016, 03:36 AM
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Look that is lovely and all but it doesn't really tackle what gun control activists are asking for - stricter background checks. You can still buy hundreds and hundreds of guns, fill your entire house up with guns and ammo for all I care. It is the complete unwillingness to allow any reason into implementing some fair and logical checks that people who may not be suitable to buy guns. It is harder to buy alcohol that it is to buy a gun and that doesn't make much sense.

Nobody is going to take your guns, it would just be nice to not read on the news that a suspected terrorist was able to buy his guns legally and mow down 49 people in cold blood. The NRA are not about your second amendment rights, they are a gun lobby financed by gun manufacturers to make money. They have lining their own pockets at heart, not your rights. They are even holding supreme court nominees up as they have become so entwined in Washington it is disgusting to watch.
I don't give money to the NRA or any political/special interest lobby. The NRA does fight for the second ammendment, agree to disagree on that. Do I agree with everything they do or say, absolutely not.

Gun control activists are all over the field with what they claim they want in gun control and so are the politicians who pander to them for support. In just the two threads about Orlando and this one I have read a number of opinions about what a person should or shouldn't hunt with, protect themselves with, be allowed to buy, who should or shouldn't be allowed to purchase, magazine capacity, etc etc. Again these are mostly without any basis in facts and spoken by many advocates out of complete ignorance. Why as a law abiding citizen should I be denied access to purchasing a firearm of my choice? No one, anywhere on the gun control side has been able to posit a coherent, factual response that could come anywhere close to answering that question.

The next question from an advocates mouth would be why do I need to buy X firearm and what is my purpose for owning it, of course in an effort to deviate from the original question. I don't ask car buyers why they bought whatever super fast sports car or a motorcycle enthusiast why they bought a really fast crotch rocket. They serve no useful function for having those suped up engines and speed to burn. The point is beside the right to own a firearm, myself and tens of millions of law abiding American citizens have done nothing to have our freedom of choice in a lifestyle that we support and is legal infringed upon. This is the exact type of personal choice and freedom that people railed against and ended prohibition, is slowly eroding the war on drugs, and so on. Law abiding people want to be able to be left alone to live their own lives, and 99% of them wish no ill will or malice on anyone. The reason for laws is to deal with the 1% f'ups who can't follow the rules and offer punishment or reparation as consequences , while everyone else knows not to break them or else. They are not for the purpose to keep enacting new ones so everyone has to get punished for the stupid sh*t the very few constantly make.

This is exactly the reason why we are the envy of the world, personal freedom. No where else will you find it to the level we have in America. I am sick of the government slowly taking away more and more of our freedoms. I don't want to be Canada (no offense), Europe, and any other country because I wouldn't have the same freedom I do here. We still live in a place where the rights of the few and unpopular are protected against the majority. The gun control issue, while being a big deal, is really a microcosm of a larger fight many are seeing across the landscape.
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Old 06-16-2016, 04:00 AM
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It is harder to buy alcohol that it is to buy a gun and that doesn't make much sense.

Nobody is going to take your guns,
Both of these statements are patently false.

Convicted criminals can buy alcohol, but can't buy guns. Drug addicts can buy alcohol, but can't buy guns. Someone committed to a mental institution at any point in their life can buy alcohol, but can't buy a gun. Military personnel who were dishonorably discharged can buy alcohol, but can't buy guns. Spousal abusers can buy alcohol, but can't buy guns. Stalkers can buy alcohol, but can't buy guns. Illegal immigrants can buy alcohol, but can't buy guns.

From December 2015 - "Its Time to Ban Guns. Yes, All of Them." https://newrepublic.com/article/1254...-guns-yes-them

The Firearms Control Act of 1975, which banned gun ownership for D.C. Residents: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firear...ns_Act_of_1975

From Tuesday - "Why It's Time to Repeal the Second Amendment"
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...-arms-20160613

Now, tell me again that no one wants to take away guns?
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Old 06-16-2016, 04:11 AM
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Both of these statements are patently false.

Convicted criminals can buy alcohol, but can't buy guns. Drug addicts can buy alcohol, but can't buy guns. Someone committed to a mental institution at any point in their life can buy alcohol, but can't buy a gun. Military personnel who were dishonorably discharged can buy alcohol, but can't buy guns. Spousal abusers can buy alcohol, but can't buy guns. Stalkers can buy alcohol, but can't buy guns. Illegal immigrants can buy alcohol, but can't buy guns.

From December 2015 - "Its Time to Ban Guns. Yes, All of Them." https://newrepublic.com/article/1254...-guns-yes-them

The Firearms Control Act of 1975, which banned gun ownership for D.C. Residents: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firear...ns_Act_of_1975

From Tuesday - "Why It's Time to Repeal the Second Amendment"
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...-arms-20160613

Now, tell me again that no one wants to take away guns?
People with drug addictions can buy a gun and people that have been in Mh institutions can also buy guns. It may be law but hipaa protects that information. Unless someone was committed to state hospital or has a criminal record of being homcidal reported by a physician know one would ever know. Spousal abusers can also buy guns how would anyone know someone was beating their wife if not arrested and it was documented. Stalkers can certainly buy guns as well. Basically you have to have a record and even then the process gets confusing.
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Old 06-16-2016, 04:22 AM
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It is the complete unwillingness to allow any reason into implementing some fair and logical checks that people who may not be suitable to buy guns.
Who determines who is suitable and not suitable to buy a gun? Let me guess, the FBI and the no-fly list right?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politi...dy-john-lewis/

Do you think its appropriate that the rights of these individuals were violated for no reason? How would you like it if someone violated your right for no reason, like searched your house with no warrant or threw you in jail without a fair trial?

How bout this - after 9/11/2001, the undisputed pinnacle of terror consciousness in this country, there were just over 400 names on the no-fly list. In 2013, there were over 47,000. In 15 years, the no-fly list grew over 100 fold.

Now, Diane Fienstein wants to delegate custody and authority of the no-fly list to the Attorney General. The same Attorney General who wants to prosecute climate change skeptics and critics of Islam for thought crime.
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Old 06-16-2016, 04:33 AM
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People with drug addictions can buy a gun and people that have been in Mh institutions can also buy guns. It may be law but hipaa protects that information. Unless someone was committed to state hospital or has a criminal record of being homcidal reported by a physician know one would ever know. Spousal abusers can also buy guns how would anyone know someone was beating their wife if not arrested and it was documented. Stalkers can certainly buy guns as well. Basically you have to have a record and even then the process gets confusing.
That's odd, these two little known government agencies seems to disagree with you:
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ni...ied-or-delayed

http://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-profess...ICS/index.html
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Old 06-16-2016, 05:08 AM
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Interesting.
Take a look at the World Bank website: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5

Let's put some more perspective on murder rates/100,000 by geographic area:
Honduras 91, Venezuela 54, Jamaica 39, Guatemala 35, Trinidad and Tobago 28, Brazil 27, Mexico 22, Panama 17, Ecuador 12, Nicaragua 11, Peru 10, Paraguay 10, US 5, Canada 2

How about: Afghanistan 6, Saudi Arabia 6, Iran 5, Lebanon 4, Turkey 4, Libya 3, West Bank/Gaza 1.

And then there's: Belgium 2, United Kingdom 1, France 1, Poland 1, Portugal 1, Netherlands 1, Denmark 1, Greece 1. Russia? 9

And finally: North Korea 5, South Korea 1, Japan 0
To be fair, all this post shows me is that any country that would be considered on par with the US in terms of laws, approximate GDP, education, etc has a more than 250% lower risk of gun related deaths. In your list, I would place Canada, South Korea, Japan, Belgium, UK, France, Poland, Portugal, Netherlands, Denmark, and Greece as these countries. Does this mean anything? I realize this can be interpreted as cherry picking, but I think it's ignorance to suggest that there are not more gun related deaths in the US than other similar countries.
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Old 06-16-2016, 06:12 AM
jessemoore97 jessemoore97 is offline
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To be fair, all this post shows me is that any country that would be considered on par with the US in terms of laws, approximate GDP, education, etc has a more than 250% lower risk of gun related deaths. In your list, I would place Canada, South Korea, Japan, Belgium, UK, France, Poland, Portugal, Netherlands, Denmark, and Greece as these countries. Does this mean anything? I realize this can be interpreted as cherry picking, but I think it's ignorance to suggest that there are not more gun related deaths in the US than other similar countries.
But it's also ignorant to suggest that these countries with vastly smaller, homogenous populations are comparable to the U.S. also. Since it goes against the talking points of the left and media, shootings and deaths from shootings is a tremendous problem in black population. The leading cause of death for black males between the ages 18-35 is by homicide from another black male, usually by firearm. In most of those instances the circumstances involved gang violence, drugs, or other criminal activity. Also of note that the majority of the weapons used in those crimes were unlawful to be in the possession of the person carrying them and were obtained through illegitimate means. Unfortunately the black population is responsible for over half the murder rate in this country, and mostly through the use of firearms, but make up only a fraction of the population. Facts don't lie, check the FBI criminal statistics. This is also true from my experiences dealing with it for 18 years as an officer in a predominately white city.

These are the types of things that don't fit the agenda of the progressive left and movements like BLM. Out of all the contested shootings of a white cop against a black suspect, say 25 across the country in a given year. At least half of those are found to be justifiable. So contrary to popular belief cops aren't gunning down blacks left and right for no reason. The progressive left throws a fit about possibly 10 shootings a year that are unjustified against black persons by cops(having just 1 unjustified is too many BTW). Yet thousands upon thousands of blacks are killed each year across this nation(mostly with handguns) with barely any mention or call to action from the press, politicians, civil rights leaders, and the left. And this has been going on for decades!

So when a predominatly white movie theater, elementary school, college campus, LGBT night club people on the left go out of their goddamn minds and want gun control this, gun ban that, and so forth to protect basically white society from those evil guns and the nuts trying to get them. Where the F do these hypocrites get off?! Tell me I'm wrong, please. Anyone.

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Old 06-16-2016, 10:42 AM
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The young black male on young black male violence skewing the numbers is definitely a valid point. I don't know that I can agree about the homogeneity of some of these countries, but I can see where you're coming from. Definitely not fair to paint the whole country with the same brush. As I've said many times on here before too, I think it's disgusting how the police are vilified in the media. Cops get shot at for no reason, nobody bats an eye. Cops take down a threat that isn't immediately in the process of shooting at them, the left loses their minds.

But, again, I reiterate that the fact of the matter is, there are more gun related deaths and more mass shootings in the US than any other 1st world Westernized society. It begs the question - why??? I don't think it's something as simple as gun control, but I do believe tightening the rules about who can and cannot purchase a gun is a start, no?????
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Old 06-16-2016, 11:10 AM
Kelly Gruene Kelly Gruene is offline
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Who determines who is suitable and not suitable to buy a gun? Let me guess, the FBI and the no-fly list right?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politi...dy-john-lewis/

Do you think its appropriate that the rights of these individuals were violated for no reason? How would you like it if someone violated your right for no reason, like searched your house with no warrant or threw you in jail without a fair trial?

How bout this - after 9/11/2001, the undisputed pinnacle of terror consciousness in this country, there were just over 400 names on the no-fly list. In 2013, there were over 47,000. In 15 years, the no-fly list grew over 100 fold.

Now, Diane Fienstein wants to delegate custody and authority of the no-fly list to the Attorney General. The same Attorney General who wants to prosecute climate change skeptics and critics of Islam for thought crime.
This is my concern.
Who, exactly, determines the No Fly list?
That right-wing bastion of news CNN even questions that, as does the right wing ACLU.
A list like that, while having a purpose, has way too many opportunities for abuse. And as the CNN article notes, once you're on it, good luck getting off the list.

Last edited by Kelly Gruene; 06-16-2016 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 06-16-2016, 12:07 PM
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Rocketsan Rocketsan is offline
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I had no clue it was this easy.

http://m.thespec.com/news-story/6725...e-in-7-minutes


Up here, I have no clue how to get a gun... Only know of one gun shop in the are...
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Old 06-16-2016, 02:05 PM
NDMJ1984 NDMJ1984 is offline
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Originally Posted by Rocketsan View Post
I had no clue it was this easy.

http://m.thespec.com/news-story/6725...e-in-7-minutes


Up here, I have no clue how to get a gun... Only know of one gun shop in the are...
Why wouldn't it be that easy/quick? The reporter, a law abiding American citizen with no criminal record or tenure in a mental health institution, exercised her right to keep and bear arms. The efficiency of the system, which seems to have so many people outraged, has no bearing on its efficacy. I can't find a single article where someone who should have failed a background check was legally in possession of a gun while committing a crime. It's a right enshrined in our constitution, and based on its location in our Bill of Rights, presumably the second most important right in the eyes of the founders.

Should speaking your mind require a license? Should worshipping the god of your choosing be subject to a competency exam? Should you have to sit in jail for three weeks awaiting the right to a fair and speedy trial?
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Old 06-16-2016, 04:47 PM
jessemoore97 jessemoore97 is offline
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Originally Posted by CanadianIrish View Post
The young black male on young black male violence skewing the numbers is definitely a valid point. I don't know that I can agree about the homogeneity of some of these countries, but I can see where you're coming from. Definitely not fair to paint the whole country with the same brush. As I've said many times on here before too, I think it's disgusting how the police are vilified in the media. Cops get shot at for no reason, nobody bats an eye. Cops take down a threat that isn't immediately in the process of shooting at them, the left loses their minds.

But, again, I reiterate that the fact of the matter is, there are more gun related deaths and more mass shootings in the US than any other 1st world Westernized society. It begs the question - why??? I don't think it's something as simple as gun control, but I do believe tightening the rules about who can and cannot purchase a gun is a start, no?????
Well,w e are comparing apples to oranges when referring to modern societies, America vs everyone else. America has a unique history compared to all those other countries. Firearms and their usage is intertwined with the founding, settling, and defense of this country. No other westernized society can claim that. Our form of government and the laws and rights for the people is also different compared to those other countries. We have always had more privately owned firearms compared to every first world country. The genie has been out of the bottle for as long as we've pretty much existed, and it was done out of necessity for the reasons I mentioned.

There is a very famous quote from Admiral Yamamoto when the Japanese leadership was planning for an attack and invasion of the West Coast. He believed that such a venture would be disastrous for their military because,"behind every blade of grass, there would be an American with a gun." He was referring to the citizens who would fight any invasion with their own privately owned firearms, not the military/government. This statement only helps to reinforce the steadfast belief among 2nd Ammendment supporters, that our right to keep and bear arms is intrinsically tied to not only personal defense but the defense of the nation against the tyranny of both foreign and domestic threats.

There are tons of laws restricting who can and can't purchase a firearm. Again from personal experience, not all of them are strictly enforced or adhered to by the government. Why make more when we aren't fully utilizing the ones we already have? The laws inhibit those who are already following them, not the criminals who don't care about them.
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