Notre Dame Football News And Talk  


Come check out the news feed! DD Front Page

Go Back   Notre Dame Football News And Talk > Message Board > Open Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #126  
Old 12-11-2012, 08:25 PM
Green Goblin's Avatar
Green Goblin Green Goblin is offline
Member
Domer Domain Junior
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,615
Default

Did God tell you that Cory?

I see many biblethumpers making this about science vs religion. From what I have seen, one side in the argument begs you to look for the answers -- on your own if you'd like....and the other side begs you not to. I know what side I'm picking...
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Don't like this ad? Register to make it go away!

  #127  
Old 12-11-2012, 08:39 PM
NDhoosier's Avatar
NDhoosier NDhoosier is offline
Senior Member
Domer Domain All American
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Clarksville, TN
Posts: 6,654
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HitchandGo View Post
You need to re-examine the way you think about people... I know it's easier to simply put the "enemy" or opposing perspective in a tiny box that fits your terms, but this is not the case. I know it might be hard to believe, but atheists are mostly just like everyone else and can be very good people who live moral lives (some atheists might even argue that they hold themselves to a higher moral standard than the bible governs; with gay rights and things like that). Most don't hate religion we just aren't convinced that any particular religion is more right than any other.

ATHEIST = HATEFUL is so low effort and very naive.
whoa whoa race horse, hold on just a minute and calm the hell down. Where did you get this out of what I said. I didnt say anything about moral lives, I didnt saying anything about atheists being hateful. I am saying why would an atheist root for a Catholic school. I am a Catholic from Indiana and that is like me cheering for a Muslim school in California... it doesnt make sense...

but if you want to talk about Moral lives, what about abortion big guy? That is really moral, deciding who lives and who dies simply because you dont want it... I am Catholic, I do not like homosexuality, but I support gay rights, I am against the death penalty, and I am against abortion, I consider myself to be a pretty moral guy.

Green Goblin, you are the typical "confrontational" atheist, who simply asks questions and says prove it to me... and the classic, "do you really believe that such and such happened." Faith is not science, we never claimed it to be, it is like asking a kindergarten teacher a calculus question and basing her intelligence off of that question. People like this are what I consider anti-religion, you attack religion more than you question the existence of a god or not... it is what bigots do...
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 12-11-2012, 08:43 PM
corysold's Avatar
corysold corysold is offline
Tenured
Domer Domain Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Cortland, IL
Posts: 13,872
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Goblin View Post
Did God tell you that Cory?

I see many biblethumpers making this about science vs religion. From what I have seen, one side in the argument begs you to look for the answers -- on your own if you'd like....and the other side begs you not to. I know what side I'm picking...
Hilarious. I've already told you I looked for what I wanted to, and found what I wanted to.

So far in this "debate", you've asked questions, I've answered them. I've asked question, you've insulted me. Not quite sure if that is standard debate practice where you are from, but it tells me all I need to know.

If you want to start answering questions, this can continue, if not, I wish you the best.

Really though, I'm not sure why it bothers you so much. Why do my Catholic beliefs, if you don't believe them yourself, bother you so much? I've no problem discussing your beliefs with you, even though I don't fully share them, yet you seem to have the need to insult me and what I believe in every chance you get. Seems a bit odd, but to each their own I guess.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 12-11-2012, 09:52 PM
Green Goblin's Avatar
Green Goblin Green Goblin is offline
Member
Domer Domain Junior
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,615
Default

I was at lunch at work, so time was at a premium. I'll answer any questions? What questions have I missed? I don't recall you adequately answering how it "honors Jesus" to wear something he'd never approve of...

Also, I have but one more question...

You truly believe a ~2000 year old tale, which is so fantastical that you admit you cannot believe it to be entirely true, about an all-powerful being that has presented himself to only a couple people (but only when they were totally alone, darn it!) and this being has some sort of personality disorder that demands of you total belief in him even though he makes it less than obvious of his existence for some reason, no one really knows. Now if you don't believe in him, you get to suffer an unimaginably painful fate for all of time time but you also believe he loves everyone.

This is really what you believe? Or would you like to change the semantics and then say yes?
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old 12-11-2012, 10:47 PM
Tenacious_ND's Avatar
Tenacious_ND Tenacious_ND is offline
Junior Member
Domer Domain Junior
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Goblin View Post

You truly believe a ~2000 year old tale, which is so fantastical that you admit you cannot believe it to be entirely true, about an all-powerful being that has presented himself to only a couple people (but only when they were totally alone, darn it!) and this being has some sort of personality disorder that demands of you total belief in him even though he makes it less than obvious of his existence for some reason, no one really knows. Now if you don't believe in him, you get to suffer an unimaginably painful fate for all of time time but you also believe he loves everyone.

This is really what you believe? Or would you like to change the semantics and then say yes?
yeah thats what i dont understand.. too many holes in evolution but none in the bible ;D one man and one woman populated the earth! hahahaha silly stuff! if you dont believe in evolution why would u believe in some old mythical magic story that when read makes no sense...
__________________
Bless this immunity!

Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old 12-11-2012, 10:59 PM
Tenacious_ND's Avatar
Tenacious_ND Tenacious_ND is offline
Junior Member
Domer Domain Junior
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NDhoosier View Post
whoa whoa race horse, hold on just a minute and calm the hell down. Where did you get this out of what I said. I didnt say anything about moral lives, I didnt saying anything about atheists being hateful. I am saying why would an atheist root for a Catholic school. I am a Catholic from Indiana and that is like me cheering for a Muslim school in California... it doesnt make sense...
i grew up catholic, my dad indoctrinated me with irish football and The Catholic Church. I ditched the religion and kept the team because ive been a fan since birth.

it could also be like a mormon choosing to go to a Catholic School. ;D
__________________
Bless this immunity!

Reply With Quote
  #132  
Old 12-11-2012, 11:14 PM
corysold's Avatar
corysold corysold is offline
Tenured
Domer Domain Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Cortland, IL
Posts: 13,872
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Goblin View Post
I was at lunch at work, so time was at a premium. I'll answer any questions? What questions have I missed? I don't recall you adequately answering how it "honors Jesus" to wear something he'd never approve of...

Also, I have but one more question...

You truly believe a ~2000 year old tale, which is so fantastical that you admit you cannot believe it to be entirely true, about an all-powerful being that has presented himself to only a couple people (but only when they were totally alone, darn it!) and this being has some sort of personality disorder that demands of you total belief in him even though he makes it less than obvious of his existence for some reason, no one really knows. Now if you don't believe in him, you get to suffer an unimaginably painful fate for all of time time but you also believe he loves everyone.

This is really what you believe? Or would you like to change the semantics and then say yes?
First, how do you know what Jesus would approve of? His dress is mentioned only 4 times in the Bible, three of which come around his crucifixion when he is getting dressed by others. The attire is meant to honor the mass and name of Jesus. Much like many wear their "Sunday Best" to attend mass. The various colors correspond to particular times of the liturgical year.

Now, if that is my choice of beliefs, then no, what you laid out is not what I believe as a Catholic.

First, the Bible tells a tale much older than 2000 years. Second, while I believe the Bible is the word of God, I also believe that there is plenty of metaphor and parable and that it is not meant to be a literal historical guide. That said, I believe God to have the power to have done any of the tales in the Bible, and many have been shown to have historical significance.

Next, I do believe God has revealed Himself to us in the form of Jesus Christ. Jesus walked the Earth and spread His message to thousands of people in His time. I don't see that as only speaking to people on an individual basis. Also, if I believe Jesus to be God, I don't believe God is hiding his existence from anyone. His word is there for you believe if you wish.

Do I fully understand Hell or understand exactly what goes on there? Nope. But I understand what my choices are on this Earth. I understand God doesn't force me into any of them. I also believe that God is a merciful God and that non-belief on Earth does not specifically damn you to Hell. I think that is a choice everyone gets to make for themselves. God does love everyone, but he doesn't force anyone to love Him.

Now, again, I am fully aware that you don't find these beliefs to be true. And I totally support your desire to believe whatever you wish. I'm still not certain why me believing that (and it was the briefest synopsis of Catholicism I could manage) bothers you, but if it does, oh well.

But as long as we are talking of "fantastical" tales, I'll ask a few questions.

How did all of the matter of the known universe fit into a spot as small as a pencil eraser?

Where did all of this matter come from?

What is the universe expanding into?

What caused all of this matter to explode into space/time seemingly defying all known physics at the moment of the bang?

How did random chemicals spontaneously create life?

Why/how did asexual organisms evolve to become sexual organisms at precisely the correct time for genetic matches to occur?

Why are humans the only known organisms to evolve to have a developed conscious?
__________________

Last edited by corysold; 12-11-2012 at 11:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Old 12-11-2012, 11:41 PM
piratey's Avatar
piratey piratey is offline
Senior Member
Domer Domain All American
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 7,299
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Goblin View Post
No my next question is why would the pope be afraid to die?
You're aware Pope John Paul II was shot four times with a semi automatic pistol in 1981 right? He lived but why go through that? It'd be pretty uncomfortable to be full of bullets, better to have a bullet proof dome...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old 12-11-2012, 11:47 PM
piratey's Avatar
piratey piratey is offline
Senior Member
Domer Domain All American
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 7,299
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Goblin View Post
I was at lunch at work, so time was at a premium. I'll answer any questions? What questions have I missed? I don't recall you adequately answering how it "honors Jesus" to wear something he'd never approve of...

Also, I have but one more question...

You truly believe a ~2000 year old tale, which is so fantastical that you admit you cannot believe it to be entirely true, about an all-powerful being that has presented himself to only a couple people (but only when they were totally alone, darn it!) and this being has some sort of personality disorder that demands of you total belief in him even though he makes it less than obvious of his existence for some reason, no one really knows. Now if you don't believe in him, you get to suffer an unimaginably painful fate for all of time time but you also believe he loves everyone.

This is really what you believe? Or would you like to change the semantics and then say yes?
Do you understand the difference between New and Old Testament?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #135  
Old 12-12-2012, 12:09 AM
Green Goblin's Avatar
Green Goblin Green Goblin is offline
Member
Domer Domain Junior
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,615
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by corysold View Post
First, how do you know what Jesus would approve of? His dress is mentioned only 4 times in the Bible, three of which come around his crucifixion when he is getting dressed by others. The attire is meant to honor the mass and name of Jesus. Much like many wear their "Sunday Best" to attend mass. The various colors correspond to particular times of the liturgical year.

Now, if that is my choice of beliefs, then no, what you laid out is not what I believe as a Catholic.

First, the Bible tells a tale much older than 2000 years. Second, while I believe the Bible is the word of God, I also believe that there is plenty of metaphor and parable and that it is not meant to be a literal historical guide. That said, I believe God to have the power to have done any of the tales in the Bible, and many have been shown to have historical significance.

Next, I do believe God has revealed Himself to us in the form of Jesus Christ. Jesus walked the Earth and spread His message to thousands of people in His time. I don't see that as only speaking to people on an individual basis. Also, if I believe Jesus to be God, I don't believe God is hiding his existence from anyone. His word is there for you believe if you wish.

Do I fully understand Hell or understand exactly what goes on there? Nope. But I understand what my choices are on this Earth. I understand God doesn't force me into any of them. I also believe that God is a merciful God and that non-belief on Earth does not specifically damn you to Hell. I think that is a choice everyone gets to make for themselves. God does love everyone, but he doesn't force anyone to love Him.

Now, again, I am fully aware that you don't find these beliefs to be true. And I totally support your desire to believe whatever you wish. I'm still not certain why me believing that (and it was the briefest synopsis of Catholicism I could manage) bothers you, but if it does, oh well.

But as long as we are talking of "fantastical" tales, I'll ask a few questions.

How did all of the matter of the known universe fit into a spot as small as a pencil eraser?

Where did all of this matter come from?

What is the universe expanding into?

What caused all of this matter to explode into space/time seemingly defying all known physics at the moment of the bang?

How did random chemicals spontaneously create life?

Why/how did asexual organisms evolve to become sexual organisms at precisely the correct time for genetic matches to occur?

Why are humans the only known organisms to evolve to have a developed conscious?
The best way I know to answer that is with another question. You know there was a time they thought it was god that made the sun rise right? Do you know the story of Galileo and the Church?

I don't understand it and neither do you, but what's it matter really if the theory is right or wrong? Doesn't make god anymore real than Bugs Bunny either way. God, like the boogie man, seems to hide in the shadows of the unknown and when man is able to cast a light in those shadows, god just sneaks off into other shadows just beyond our reach. Its a game that's been played by the church for hundreds of years -- like the church's dealings with Galileo and other scientists proves. I'm tired of the games and convenient rules.

Humans are the only known species now but we're probably not alone...

Also, YOU have never met Jesus either I'm willing to bet so that isn't going to fly. Again, I'm curious why an all-knowing, all-powerful being is so coy with us, yet demands we "believe" in him? I mean besides for the completely obvious answer that its the easiest way the church held its power and kept its followers in line....

Last edited by Green Goblin; 12-12-2012 at 12:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #136  
Old 12-12-2012, 01:01 AM
piratey's Avatar
piratey piratey is offline
Senior Member
Domer Domain All American
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 7,299
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Goblin View Post
The best way I know to answer that is with another question. You know there was a time they thought it was god that made the sun rise right? Do you know the story of Galileo and the Church?

I don't understand it and neither do you, but what's it matter really if the theory is right or wrong? Doesn't make god anymore real than Bugs Bunny either way. God, like the boogie man, seems to hide in the shadows of the unknown and when man is able to cast a light in those shadows, god just sneaks off into other shadows just beyond our reach. Its a game that's been played by the church for hundreds of years -- like the church's dealings with Galileo and other scientists proves. I'm tired of the games and convenient rules.

Humans are the only known species now but we're probably not alone...

Also, YOU have never met Jesus either I'm willing to bet so that isn't going to fly. Again, I'm curious why an all-knowing, all-powerful being is so coy with us, yet demands we "believe" in him? I mean besides for the completely obvious answer that its the easiest way the church held its power and kept its followers in line....
You're aware by citing galileo, you're just using a debunked anecdote right? The whole Copernicus v. Pythagorean argument between the pope and Galileo is over played.

Common trend here is...do some research.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #137  
Old 12-12-2012, 01:11 AM
OklahomaIrish's Avatar
OklahomaIrish OklahomaIrish is offline
Tenured
Domer Domain Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma
Posts: 10,517
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NDhoosier View Post
whoa whoa race horse, hold on just a minute and calm the hell down. Where did you get this out of what I said. I didnt say anything about moral lives, I didnt saying anything about atheists being hateful. I am saying why would an atheist root for a Catholic school. I am a Catholic from Indiana and that is like me cheering for a Muslim school in California... it doesnt make sense...

but if you want to talk about Moral lives, what about abortion big guy? That is really moral, deciding who lives and who dies simply because you dont want it... I am Catholic, I do not like homosexuality, but I support gay rights, I am against the death penalty, and I am against abortion, I consider myself to be a pretty moral guy.

Green Goblin, you are the typical "confrontational" atheist, who simply asks questions and says prove it to me... and the classic, "do you really believe that such and such happened." Faith is not science, we never claimed it to be, it is like asking a kindergarten teacher a calculus question and basing her intelligence off of that question. People like this are what I consider anti-religion, you attack religion more than you question the existence of a god or not... it is what bigots do...
Good stuff NDHoosier. There are many many miracles to point the way to the Catholic Church. Unncorrupt bodies of the saints, Eucharistic miracles, 400 documented cases of raising from the dead, etcc etc... If you look you will find. It's that simple. Most atheists are intelligent but held back by pride and usually not worth the effort. They aren't searching.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #138  
Old 12-12-2012, 01:52 AM
Green Goblin's Avatar
Green Goblin Green Goblin is offline
Member
Domer Domain Junior
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,615
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by piratey View Post
You're aware by citing galileo, you're just using a debunked anecdote right? The whole Copernicus v. Pythagorean argument between the pope and Galileo is over played.

Common trend here is...do some research.
LOL. Debunked by who?

I see you seem less than eager to say what really happened...
Reply With Quote
  #139  
Old 12-12-2012, 02:33 AM
piratey's Avatar
piratey piratey is offline
Senior Member
Domer Domain All American
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 7,299
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Goblin View Post
LOL. Debunked by who?

I see you seem less than eager to say what really happened...
Sigh. Galileo was funded by the church. And he wasn't put to trial for simply saying the earth revolved around the sun...it was that he promised not to teach his findings without further research. Keep in mind, Galileo said that the earths rotation was what caused the tides...and that it wasn't a steady rotation but a "slosh." Was he brought before the Inquisition? Yeah. He stayed at the Medici Villa in Rome during the trial...Galileo was neither charged nor convicted of heresy. He was charged with teaching heliocentrism in specific contravention of his own pledge not to do so. This is a charge on which Galileo was guilty. He had assured Cardinal Bellarmine that given the sensitivity of the issue, he would not publicly promote heliocentrism. Yet when a new pope was named, Galileo decided on his own to go back on his word.

It was Augustine of Hippo who said "One does not read in the Gospel that the Lord said: ‘I will send you the Paraclete who will teach you about the course of the sun and moon.’ For he willed to make them Christians, not mathematicians."

The church has sponsored some of histories greatest scientists...Galileo, Mendel, Copernicus, Dumas, Pasteur, Roentgen, Di Vinci, Picard, Muller even Georges Lemaitre, the man who discovered the Big Bang(quite the biblical event, no? "And then there was light....") And that's leaving out mathematicians like Pascal, Viete, Weierstrass, Mong, Fermat and Rene Descartes, my personal favorite philosopher, who also was the man who invented using x, y, z in mathematics and standard notations. Frankly I can't do the full list justice, go look it up yourself.


Edit: This is the Grand Medici Villa where he stayed during the Inquisition...


Here is the house he finished the last ten years of his life living in...
__________________

Last edited by piratey; 12-12-2012 at 02:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #140  
Old 12-12-2012, 02:47 AM
nd1baby's Avatar
nd1baby nd1baby is offline
Member
Domer Domain Junior
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,532
Default

Jedi Religion takes hold in England.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/reli...ive-faith.html
__________________
Top o' the world Ma!
Reply With Quote
  #141  
Old 12-12-2012, 02:59 AM
piratey's Avatar
piratey piratey is offline
Senior Member
Domer Domain All American
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 7,299
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nd1baby View Post
Jedi Religion takes hold in England.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/reli...ive-faith.html
Unabashed Star Wars fan reporting in... jedi's were ruined by the prequels.... they used to be awesome space wizards...but now with midichlorian's? Real lame George, real lame. Hopefully Disney can right the ship and give the franchise the care and expansive scope they did with their Marvel property.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old 12-12-2012, 03:14 AM
NDhoosier's Avatar
NDhoosier NDhoosier is offline
Senior Member
Domer Domain All American
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Clarksville, TN
Posts: 6,654
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenacious_ND View Post
i grew up catholic, my dad indoctrinated me with irish football and The Catholic Church. I ditched the religion and kept the team because ive been a fan since birth.

it could also be like a mormon choosing to go to a Catholic School. ;D
I can accept that reasoning Tenacious, but you still have to admit that it is quite odd and rare.

as for going to a school, that is a whole different issue. People can go to school for a variety of different reasons, but lets take a look at Teo's situation. Teo is a spiritual man, and ND offers that much more than U$C because contrary to what people think Catholicism is very accepting of different people. Obviously, once you attend that school, that in itself is reason enough to root for them, but majority of ND's fanbase has never EVEN BEEN to ND, so I simply question an atheist, who is not an alumni, why cheer for a school that STANDS for something you are against.

But enough of why people are fans, it was more of a thought I had, not something I really wanted to debate about. Of course, hitchandgo came in here and basically called me an idiot or bigot (cant tell which to be honest, maybe both), so I had to defend myself. I think my point is pretty logical.
Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 12-12-2012, 03:25 AM
mcdougal93's Avatar
mcdougal93 mcdougal93 is offline
Senior Member
Domer Domain All American
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 5,293
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by piratey View Post
Sigh. Galileo was funded by the church. And he wasn't put to trial for simply saying the earth revolved around the sun...it was that he promised not to teach his findings without further research. Keep in mind, Galileo said that the earths rotation was what caused the tides...and that it wasn't a steady rotation but a "slosh." Was he brought before the Inquisition? Yeah. He stayed at the Medici Villa in Rome during the trial...Galileo was neither charged nor convicted of heresy. He was charged with teaching heliocentrism in specific contravention of his own pledge not to do so. This is a charge on which Galileo was guilty. He had assured Cardinal Bellarmine that given the sensitivity of the issue, he would not publicly promote heliocentrism. Yet when a new pope was named, Galileo decided on his own to go back on his word.

It was Augustine of Hippo who said "One does not read in the Gospel that the Lord said: I will send you the Paraclete who will teach you about the course of the sun and moon. For he willed to make them Christians, not mathematicians."

The church has sponsored some of histories greatest scientists...Galileo, Mendel, Copernicus, Dumas, Pasteur, Roentgen, Di Vinci, Picard, Muller even Georges Lemaitre, the man who discovered the Big Bang(quite the biblical event, no? "And then there was light....") And that's leaving out mathematicians like Pascal, Viete, Weierstrass, Mong, Fermat and Rene Descartes, my personal favorite philosopher, who also was the man who invented using x, y, z in mathematics and standard notations. Frankly I can't do the full list justice, go look it up yourself.


Edit: This is the Grand Medici Villa where he stayed during the Inquisition...


Here is the house he finished the last ten years of his life living in...
Good job Piratey. Very impressive. Most historians consider Newton the greatest scientist that ever lived and he believed in THE Creator. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_N...eligious_views

Believing in evolution and having religious faith are not mutually exclusive as has been explained by some posters on here. One also should not lump people who believe in intelligent design with those who believe in young earth creationism.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 12-12-2012, 03:33 AM
piratey's Avatar
piratey piratey is offline
Senior Member
Domer Domain All American
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 7,299
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcdougal93 View Post
Good job Piratey. Very impressive. Most historians consider Newton the greatest scientist that ever lived and he believed in THE Creator. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_N...eligious_views

Believing in evolution and having religious faith are not mutually exclusive as has been explained by some posters on here. One also should not lump people who believe in intelligent design with those who believe in young earth creationism.
Extremely important to note. I don't know a single young earth creationist...that seems to be a southern protestant thing. Officially, the Catholic Church takes no stance on the age of the earth.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #145  
Old 12-12-2012, 03:43 AM
mcdougal93's Avatar
mcdougal93 mcdougal93 is offline
Senior Member
Domer Domain All American
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 5,293
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by piratey View Post
Extremely important to note. I don't know a single young earth creationist...that seems to be a southern protestant thing. Officially, the Catholic Church takes no stance on the age of the earth.
Here is a link of what you were talking about. The Pope basically says that there was a Big Bang and GOD caused it. http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/...ence-religion/

Sums up Catholic teaching that we believe in God and science. Astonishing isn't it? How's that for being open minded?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 12-12-2012, 03:55 AM
piratey's Avatar
piratey piratey is offline
Senior Member
Domer Domain All American
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 7,299
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcdougal93 View Post
Here is a link of what you were talking about. The Pope basically says that there was a Big Bang and GOD caused it. http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/...ence-religion/

Sums up Catholic teaching that we believe in God and science. Astonishing isn't it? How's that for being open minded?
The article is pretty spot on, the Church is willing to mend whatever perceived schism there is between believers and non-believers in the scientific community but it's like Atheists don't WANT to see eye to eye. They would rather prefer to see us as mindless drones who ignore science and serve as their boogeyman or as a convenient rallying cry to stir up imaginary disputes.
Per the article:

Quote:
"Reconciling science with Christian religion is impossible," Zbigniew Jaworowski, a medical doctor, and a professor emeritus of natural sciences at the Central Laboratory for Radiological Protection, in Warsaw, Poland, told FoxNews.com. "Let the Pope stick with his sacred book, and let science follow its way."
It's so much easy for them to portray Christians as a villains of science! Plus it gives them the excuse to litter their car with bumper stickers.

Lemme know when you have a better rational for the Big Bang and Human consciousness/Free Will, other than intelligent design.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old 12-12-2012, 06:00 AM
yikityyakirish's Avatar
yikityyakirish yikityyakirish is offline
Junior Member
Domer Domain Junior
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Memphis,TN
Posts: 2,422
Default

People should believe what they want....what makes them happy....

I choose not to believe in God but I do think that everyone should live by his word...unfortunately for all of us we are all stupid....we contradict ourselves daily, we point fingers, we lack accountability, we lack knowledge, we lack mental toughness, we lack physical toughness, etc.

We are completely imperfect and in a world that can be darker than you could ever imagine some of us need religion to cope with what happens....I always think that if there is a God and I follow his word and don't believe in him....he would be somewhat of a pompous ******* and a hypocrite if he did not let me go to heaven...

If God created us why don't we automatically believe in him....it is the greatest test one can face to decide whether they have faith

I always loved the way my favorite teacher in high school put it....

I feel like it is very silly to not believe in God because if he is real and you don't believe in him you will go to hell, but if he isn't real and you believe in him you will have the same fate as those who don't believe....

This question is the most important of all time....I often wonder if there would be any technological advancement if people didn't try to prove there is no god...

I feel like a world without religion would be full of selfishness.....religion may be the only thing that separates us from the animals....death is depressing people don't want to think about it because it is frightening....but honestly think about what it feels like to be dead, think about what it feels like to not be able to think, its very sad isn't it but you couldn't think it was sad because you couldn't think.....if you die and there is no god it won't matter but if you die and there is it will matter

As for saying it is blatantly obvious that there is no god...you seem pretty confident...hope we don't look like jackasses waiting in line at "the pearly gates"

I do have to throw this out there though...if you don't believe in an "after life"....you better get to living because it's the last you will ever do...

I guess it is nerve racking as well as somewhat exciting to die to see if your life turned out how you wanted, if you made the best of what you had, if there is anything you didn't do....
__________________

Life's a Garden....Dig it....

Last edited by yikityyakirish; 12-12-2012 at 06:06 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #148  
Old 12-12-2012, 01:15 PM
Tenacious_ND's Avatar
Tenacious_ND Tenacious_ND is offline
Junior Member
Domer Domain Junior
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yikityyakirish View Post
I do have to throw this out there though...if you don't believe in an "after life"....you better get to living because it's the last you will ever do....
forget that! even if you do believe in an after life you should still be living life to the fullest, its your only shot at being an advanced monkey enjoy it!
__________________
Bless this immunity!

Reply With Quote
  #149  
Old 12-12-2012, 01:41 PM
corysold's Avatar
corysold corysold is offline
Tenured
Domer Domain Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Cortland, IL
Posts: 13,872
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Goblin View Post
The best way I know to answer that is with another question. You know there was a time they thought it was god that made the sun rise right? Do you know the story of Galileo and the Church?

I don't understand it and neither do you, but what's it matter really if the theory is right or wrong? Doesn't make god anymore real than Bugs Bunny either way. God, like the boogie man, seems to hide in the shadows of the unknown and when man is able to cast a light in those shadows, god just sneaks off into other shadows just beyond our reach. Its a game that's been played by the church for hundreds of years -- like the church's dealings with Galileo and other scientists proves. I'm tired of the games and convenient rules.

Humans are the only known species now but we're probably not alone...

Also, YOU have never met Jesus either I'm willing to bet so that isn't going to fly. Again, I'm curious why an all-knowing, all-powerful being is so coy with us, yet demands we "believe" in him? I mean besides for the completely obvious answer that its the easiest way the church held its power and kept its followers in line....
Now this is brilliant. First, I and others (most eloquently Piratey) answer/debunk most issues/questions you've brought up regarding Catholicism. At this point it seems you are left with the two big issues being Man lived in fish for 3 days and Pope wears white after Labor Day.

Then, you suggest you are willing to answer any questions I may have. However, upon proposing to you some very real questions, most of which had to do with quite major issues/questions in the Big Bang/Evolution (both events I agree occurred, though not necessarily as taught), your answer is:

Let me ask you a question and "I don't know, neither do you (though I have done much research on it and could provide a synopsis of available theories) but it doesn't matter anyway because Religion sucks." That sir, is a brilliant answer to my questions. Further, it should matter a little bit to you if the theories are correct or not. Seeing as they are the most widely accepted theories as to why we are here and the theories being studied/examined by most current anthropologists/physicists, if they are not correct, the next best answer at this point would be God created it all.

I mean, "I don't know why, it just happened, accept it" sounds an awful lot like the answer many might give to "How could a man live in a fish for 3 days" argument you like to use, but I digress.

Answering questions with questions and insulting the questioner are two old strategies for those who are found to be talking out of their *** with no information behind their claims. If this thread has taught us anything it is that having an opinion and having an educated opinion are clearly not one in the same.

At the same time, it has been proven on this thread that two sides, though disagreeing on beliefs, can engage in a thoughtful and educational debate in which both sides propose questions, the other side proposes answers and theories, and while no beliefs are likely changed, both sides come away a bit more educated and with some respect for the other side of the argument.

You seem to have chosen the "I'm not totally sure what I'm talking about, but I'll make some fantastical claims that hopefully no one can discredit, insult anyone who disagrees with me, mock them if they do and fail to provide any substantive knowledge on why I believe what I do."

Well done. You succeeded in all counts.

I think we're done here.
__________________

Last edited by corysold; 12-12-2012 at 01:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #150  
Old 12-12-2012, 04:28 PM
jfschellcrna's Avatar
jfschellcrna jfschellcrna is offline
Administrator
Domer Domain Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: coopersburg, pa.
Posts: 15,564
Default

.......................
__________________
"I was in Baghdad before you were in your dad's bag".......Graeme Gow

Too much virtue is gonna hurt you!!

Clarity
The moment when you realize the preseason polls were wrong. Again.

Moderator



ASBC!!!!!!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump

Also visit IrishEnvy, our Notre Dame Football partner site

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:26 AM.

Last Updated: November 19, 2019

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.