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  #51  
Old 11-18-2014, 03:51 AM
ELDER06 ELDER06 is offline
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I couldn't believe reading that article that NFL teams are interested in him, for what? Did they not watch the Northwestern game, don't think Florida would even want him after that.
It was bad, but he wasn't coaching the defense. How many tackles did BK miss?
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  #52  
Old 11-18-2014, 04:01 AM
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It baffles me that seemingly everyone on the board is in agreement that ND is no longer a premier coaching position in the country. Our last two hires were 1., the most sought after NFL coordinator for an NFL head coaching position in 2004, and 2., a guy who was named 2009 Home Depot Coach of the Year a week before we hired him.

The facilities are elite, you're one of the 10 highest paid in the business, the recruiting and assistant coach salary budgets are limitless, whatever you want (play a game in Ireland, field turf, a new alternate uniform each year), you usually get. Which makes the inability to recruit JUCO players or half the ESPN150 more than tolerable.

With the exception of Meyer, Saban and a few others, we'd get any coach we want. And that's nothing new, there's always been a few elite coaches who had no interest in ND, and there always will be. Paterno never would have come to ND, nor would Bryant, or Hayes or Schembechler, and on and on.
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  #53  
Old 11-18-2014, 04:07 AM
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It was bad, but he wasn't coaching the defense. How many tackles did BK miss?
There were probably 4 or 5 calls that cost us the game solely on his part. That's also the best thing about a head coach he shoulders the blame for all three parts, or should atleast.

He can take control of the defense at any point if he likes, unless he has less of a clue than BVG and that's not a good thing.

Someone was saying no wonder BVG was with the Jets, haha my dad said the same thing.
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  #54  
Old 11-18-2014, 12:48 PM
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I was already on board with BK pursuing an NFL or another college position. The NW game just solidified that.

I don't know if he'd com, but D'Antonio is by far my #1 choice.
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  #55  
Old 11-18-2014, 12:54 PM
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There aren't many good, proven coaches that seem to be ready to leave their respective teams this year. Maybe Mullen, but I'm not completely sold on him and he'll probably end up at Florida anyway. Who else? I am as staunchly against Brian Kelly as one can be, but it doesn't make sense for us to hope he leaves or gets fired this year, unless Swarbrick has an ace up his sleeve (Gruden? I don't know haha.)
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  #56  
Old 11-18-2014, 01:10 PM
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It baffles me that seemingly everyone on the board is in agreement that ND is no longer a premier coaching position in the country. Our last two hires were 1., the most sought after NFL coordinator for an NFL head coaching position in 2004, and 2., a guy who was named 2009 Home Depot Coach of the Year a week before we hired him.

The facilities are elite, you're one of the 10 highest paid in the business, the recruiting and assistant coach salary budgets are limitless, whatever you want (play a game in Ireland, field turf, a new alternate uniform each year), you usually get. Which makes the inability to recruit JUCO players or half the ESPN150 more than tolerable.

With the exception of Meyer, Saban and a few others, we'd get any coach we want. And that's nothing new, there's always been a few elite coaches who had no interest in ND, and there always will be. Paterno never would have come to ND, nor would Bryant, or Hayes or Schembechler, and on and on.
This isn't true. According to most reports, ND coaches and staff and vastly underpaid compared to coaches at similar schools.
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  #57  
Old 11-18-2014, 02:23 PM
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This isn't true. According to most reports, ND coaches and staff and vastly underpaid compared to coaches at similar schools.
Prolly cause we're still paying for fat chuck to stuff his face at the buffett breakfast/lunch/dinner
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  #58  
Old 11-18-2014, 02:28 PM
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Because Notre Dame is not a lateral move. Yes, Michigan State is currently higher ranked, but in no way have they ever been on Notre Dame's level as a program. Dantonio is a respected head coach but is not nearly as recognized for his accomplishments as he would be if he won at Notre Dame. He would be able to recruit better players and have substantially better benefits that Notre Dame brings, that Michigan State will never have. Additionally, Notre Dame is close, I've heard he prefers a smaller town feel, etc. Finally, he's not long for coaching and he could win at Notre Dame, big, very quickly. Michigan State is simply not comparable to Notre Dame and never will be. Though culturally, Notre Dame is more strict and restrictions more difficult, he would be a natural fit. He's a Midwestern kind of man that can and will recruit well, nationally if given the chance and resources. Do you disagree?
Yes, I disagree.

In the post Holtz era, MSU is 10-7 vs ND. It is what it is. They've been the better program by a bit.

I would debate that ND recruits better. If we did, how could Bobby Williams and John L Smith beat us? We have a larger fan base who is more prone to pay recruiting sites who give ND fans what they want, but if I had money for all the high ranked busts at ND who got their a$$ handed to them by lower ranked MSU players I'd be a rich man. Councell and Rabasa are two of the latest, but it happens every year.
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  #59  
Old 11-18-2014, 02:39 PM
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Yes, I disagree.

In the post Holtz era, MSU is 10-7 vs ND. It is what it is. They've been the better program by a bit.

I would debate that ND recruits better. If we did, how could Bobby Williams and John L Smith beat us? We have a larger fan base who is more prone to pay recruiting sites who give ND fans what they want, but if I had money for all the high ranked busts at ND who got their a$$ handed to them by lower ranked MSU players I'd be a rich man. Councell and Rabasa are two of the latest, but it happens every year.
Cute. What's the record in the last 5 meetings?
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Old 11-18-2014, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by NDMJ1984 View Post
It baffles me that seemingly everyone on the board is in agreement that ND is no longer a premier coaching position in the country. Our last two hires were 1., the most sought after NFL coordinator for an NFL head coaching position in 2004, and 2., a guy who was named 2009 Home Depot Coach of the Year a week before we hired him.

The facilities are elite, you're one of the 10 highest paid in the business, the recruiting and assistant coach salary budgets are limitless, whatever you want (play a game in Ireland, field turf, a new alternate uniform each year), you usually get. Which makes the inability to recruit JUCO players or half the ESPN150 more than tolerable.

With the exception of Meyer, Saban and a few others, we'd get any coach we want. And that's nothing new, there's always been a few elite coaches who had no interest in ND, and there always will be. Paterno never would have come to ND, nor would Bryant, or Hayes or Schembechler, and on and on.
We might be able to get a good coach if he was out of a job.
ND is not the dream job for most coaches. They would be coaching with one
hand tied behind his back with the academics and other requirements. And if he lost three games, the fans like you would want him fired even though he is playing 1st and 2nd year players.
Alabama`s two starting tackles were JUCO players last year.
The good coaches already have all of the advantages that you listed but they DON`T have to go to Ireland.
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  #61  
Old 11-18-2014, 03:02 PM
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Think about this thread, why on earth would Florida want Brian Kelly? There are other HC's doing better jobs at tougher programs, like the candidiates thread. Holgerson, Mullen, Mcdaniel, The Stoops brothers and there are many more out there too.

Noone wants Brian Kelly that we can be sure of, a mid level BCS team is the best he'd get think of a place like Tennessee.
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  #62  
Old 11-18-2014, 03:07 PM
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Think about this thread, why on earth would Florida want Brian Kelly? There are other HC's doing better jobs at tougher programs, like the candidiates thread. Holgerson, Mullen, Mcdaniel, The Stoops brothers and there are many more out there too.

Noone wants Brian Kelly that we can be sure of, a mid level BCS team is the best he'd get think of a place like Tennessee.
What's Dana Holgerson ever done beside have the most wicked comb-over in sports? His career 2721 record is awful, his 1517 conference record is dreadful. And if you ignore his 10-3 first season which was in the BigEast, he's a sub .500 coach.

7-6 in 2012
4-8 in 2013
6-4 in 2014(And they play KSU this weekend)
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  #63  
Old 11-18-2014, 03:27 PM
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What's Dana Holgerson ever done beside have the most wicked comb-over in sports? His career 2721 record is awful, his 1517 conference record is dreadful. And if you ignore his 10-3 first season which was in the BigEast, he's a sub .500 coach.

7-6 in 2012
4-8 in 2013
6-4 in 2014(And they play KSU this weekend)
Thanks for digging into the numbers... That is pretty bad, I don't think West Virginia recruits very well though. Gotta realize some schools like ND put much more into recruiting than other schools.

What about Chris Peterson? That's a guy that I always wanted here, I don't know if he'd leave for Florida but I can't imagine Washington as a destination.
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  #64  
Old 11-18-2014, 03:28 PM
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What's Dana Holgerson ever done beside have the most wicked comb-over in sports? His career 2721 record is awful, his 1517 conference record is dreadful. And if you ignore his 10-3 first season which was in the BigEast, he's a sub .500 coach.

7-6 in 2012
4-8 in 2013
6-4 in 2014(And they play KSU this weekend)
It is wicked.
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  #65  
Old 11-18-2014, 03:35 PM
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Cute. What's the record in the last 5 meetings?
I'd say 5 games is a smaller statistical perspective than 17.

Then I'd say lets look at the disadvantages: Your QB and 5 starters could be kicked out in successive years for academic reasons you'd never face at MSU with you having no control to compensate for their losses. You could have a rash of injuries, suspensions, transfers and recruiting misses with no recourse to JUCO's. The police in your town raid parties and you have to deal with the horror of "Oh my God" college football players drinking. The ND moral police are always hounding you. You can win 8 games with some bad luck and a very young squad and the fanbase and alumni want you fired. You've got to pay chop blocking Navy on the East Coast where the temperatures are in the low 40's and return the next week to the Southwest and play in the high 80's. And on and on and on....

So, I'll say it again: It's a lateral move and no elite coach is going to touch it with a ten foot pole. Can you blame them?
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  #66  
Old 11-18-2014, 03:43 PM
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I'd say 5 games is a smaller statistical perspective than 17.

Then I'd say lets look at the disadvantages: Your QB and 5 starters could be kicked out in successive years for academic reasons you'd never face at MSU with you having no control to compensate for their losses. You could have a rash of injuries, suspensions, transfers and recruiting misses with no recourse to JUCO's. The police in your town raid parties and you have to deal with the horror of "Oh my God" college football players drinking. The ND moral police are always hounding you. You can win 8 games with some bad luck and a very young squad and the fanbase and alumni want you fired. You've got to pay chop blocking Navy on the East Coast where the temperatures are in the low 40's and return the next week to the Southwest and play in the high 80's. And on and on and on....

So, I'll say it again: It's a lateral move and no elite coach is going to touch it with a ten foot pole. Can you blame them?
Look, I'm not going to argue Dantonio would ever leave MSU. I think he's a lifer, even if Alabama or Texas came calling. It's the perfect job for him. He plays the chip on the shoulder card better than any coach.

But don't be absurd. Michigan State is a second tier B1G school. As much recent success as they've had, they are right there with Wisconsin and Penn State as that second rung school below Michigan and Ohio State. They'll fight over the scraps left behind by the powers in the Midwest(tOSU, Michigan and Notre Dame)

it's not a lateral move, nor will it ever be a lateral move. Notre Dame is a top 10 job in the country and will always be a top 10 job in the country. And that's not being a homer. We have incredible resources, access to better recruits, better facilities, more money than just about every school outside Austin, Texas. Michigan State isn't even a top 20 job...

And your 17 year sample is asinine. You're including the 5-0 run MSU had from '97-01, where they were coached by Nick Saban. If you exclude the Saban years(best coach in CFB history), the series is 7-7. And John L Smith and Boobie Williams are no worse than Tyrone and Boob Davie... The series has obviously turned in our favor
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  #67  
Old 11-18-2014, 04:17 PM
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What's Dana Holgerson ever done beside have the most wicked comb-over in sports?
Gene Keady might beg to differ...
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Old 11-18-2014, 04:24 PM
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Gene Keady might beg to differ...

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Old 11-18-2014, 04:37 PM
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Look, I'm not going to argue Dantonio would ever leave MSU. I think he's a lifer, even if Alabama or Texas came calling. It's the perfect job for him. He plays the chip on the shoulder card better than any coach.

But don't be absurd. Michigan State is a second tier B1G school. As much recent success as they've had, they are right there with Wisconsin and Penn State as that second rung school below Michigan and Ohio State. They'll fight over the scraps left behind by the powers in the Midwest(tOSU, Michigan and Notre Dame)

it's not a lateral move, nor will it ever be a lateral move. Notre Dame is a top 10 job in the country and will always be a top 10 job in the country. And that's not being a homer. We have incredible resources, access to better recruits, better facilities, more money than just about every school outside Austin, Texas. Michigan State isn't even a top 20 job...

And your 17 year sample is asinine. You're including the 5-0 run MSU had from '97-01, where they were coached by Nick Saban. If you exclude the Saban years(best coach in CFB history), the series is 7-7. And John L Smith and Boobie Williams are no worse than Tyrone and Boob Davie... The series has obviously turned in our favor
This! Thank you. Lateral move my ***.
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Old 11-18-2014, 04:57 PM
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it's not a lateral move, nor will it ever be a lateral move. Notre Dame is a top 10 job in the country and will always be a top 10 job in the country.
If ND was a Top 10 job, the market would respond. ND is no longer a destination job, it is a interim job, and I think Brian Kelly is going to show you that. The days where we're considered Top 10 are over. We have much more in common with Stanford than Alabama, Ohio State, USC, Florida State, Florida etc. Our history is skewing our fanbase's perception, but that history is long gone.
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Old 11-18-2014, 05:09 PM
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If ND was a Top 10 job, the market would respond. ND is no longer a destination job, it is a interim job, and I think Brian Kelly is going to show you that. The days where we're considered Top 10 are over. We have much more in common with Stanford than Alabama, Ohio State, USC, Florida State, Florida etc. Our history is skewing our fanbase's perception, but that history is long gone.
The market would respond to what? We hired THE coach in vogue that season. No coaching name was hotter than Brian Kelly.

We're top 10 as long as we're top ten in revenue. Money > Recent Success. Don't be daft.

Urban Meyer bailed on Florida and took the tOSU job 2 years later. You don't understand how things work do you? It's about who has the most money, the most resources, the most in sponsorship's...

You can THINK Brian Kelly is going to show us all you want. The fact is, until an ND coach leaves ND to coach at another COLLEGE, you're full of it. Moving onto to the pros is different. It doesn't make your school an interim job school, it just means your coach wants to get paid 6-7million instead of 2-5 million.
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Old 11-18-2014, 05:12 PM
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The market would respond to what? We hired THE coach in vogue that season. No coaching name was hotter than Brian Kelly.

We're top 10 as long as we're top ten in revenue. Money > Recent Success. Don't be daft.

Urban Meyer bailed on Florida and took the tOSU job 2 years later. You don't understand how things work do you? It's about who has the most money, the most resources, the most in sponsorship's...

You can THINK Brian Kelly is going to show us all you want. The fact is, until an ND coach leaves ND to coach at another COLLEGE, you're full of it. Moving onto to the pros is different. It doesn't make your school an interim job school, it just means your coach wants to get paid 6-7million instead of 2-5 million.

Totally agree here but if it's all about the cash can't ND match any NFL offer. Once we're doing paying fatboy we should be able to match anything to keep or get one of the top coaches out there. Success in the NFL is never given and many college coaches figure that out the hard way.
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Old 11-18-2014, 05:14 PM
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You could argue that Dantonio has made MSU into a better program than ND. Several programs have leap frogged ND just over the last few years. MSU, Baylor, TCU, Texas A&M, Mizzou, Miss St.UCLA among others. It's difficult to accept but we aren't alone. Nebraska, Miami have been left behind as well.
He might have made MSU a better school, but if he came to ND he would have access to better recruits or more national recognition. I think that is his point. FWIW, I don't see Dantonio leaving his comfy position.
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Old 11-18-2014, 05:22 PM
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It baffles me that seemingly everyone on the board is in agreement that ND is no longer a premier coaching position in the country. Our last two hires were 1., the most sought after NFL coordinator for an NFL head coaching position in 2004, and 2., a guy who was named 2009 Home Depot Coach of the Year a week before we hired him.

The facilities are elite, you're one of the 10 highest paid in the business, the recruiting and assistant coach salary budgets are limitless, whatever you want (play a game in Ireland, field turf, a new alternate uniform each year), you usually get. Which makes the inability to recruit JUCO players or half the ESPN150 more than tolerable.

With the exception of Meyer, Saban and a few others, we'd get any coach we want. And that's nothing new, there's always been a few elite coaches who had no interest in ND, and there always will be. Paterno never would have come to ND, nor would Bryant, or Hayes or Schembechler, and on and on.
Great point and I agree with this completely.
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Old 11-18-2014, 05:24 PM
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He might have made MSU a better school, but if he came to ND he would have access to better recruits or more national recognition. I think that is his point. FWIW, I don't see Dantonio leaving his comfy position.
^This. Exactly.

Dantonio is basically following in Tom Izzo's footsteps.

Tom is one of the best coaches in America, there is no denying it. But Michigan State isn't Kentucky. It isn't Kansas. It isn't Duke or even UNC. But Tom gets to be king of Lansing. Tom has his AD's ear. Tom will have the stadium named after him when he retires. Mark will end up having the same thing.

Look at Kentucky. The program was down since '98, no Final Four appearances to Izzo's six from 1999-2010. You would say, "well MSU is the better job."
Wrong. Izzo was the better coach but Kentucky is THE job in college basketball. They get John Calipari...3 final fours and a title since 2011. Don't compare short term(10-20 years is short term) success, to the potential for success. It's about ceilings, and some schools have them, some don't.

Don't be short sighted. Notre Dame is an elite job.
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