Josh Adams for Heisman (NEXT YEAR)

[OklahomaIrish]

Josh Adams just isn't getting any publicity from the national pundits. He isn't listed in the top 5 candidates for the Heisman. Maybe this could be a good thing.

First, it seems to me, you must lay the ground work for the Heisman trophy as Barkley has done just that for Penn State last year. He is now the leading candidate to bring home the hardware. What he has done, and Penn State, that we haven't done is win consistently. Actually Josh has better stats than does Barkley, but last year's 4-8 debacle is hard to overcome in only half a season.

Should we continue to win and Josh stays on target with his vintage long runs off tackle, he will force his way into the conversation. It can also be a great recruiting tool for Kelly to tell Josh, come back next year and we will promote you for the Heisman.

The main problem I see with that might be the offensive line. We are losing the left side dynamic duo of McGlinchey and Nelson. Can Josh maintain his yards per carry?

I think the answer to that is MAYBE. Mustipher is a stud and should come back as he is the leader next year. Bars was extremely highly rated and has the frame to be a standout. The right side of the line is starting to play very well. Kramer and Hainsey could be much improved next year.

The ace in the hole is BALIS. The improvement our entire team has made under his tutelage is amazing. I can't wait to see the O line in next year's spring game. I think at that time we will be excited about this unit. I do have a concern over current recruiting as both commits are 3 stars and don't have great offer lists. Still time to pull in a couple studs though. Whoever comes in will benefit from the red shirt and Balis.

So think Heisman Next year. Let's lay the ground work this year and most importantly, win games. Next year the defense should compliment the Offense even more as we continue to recruit off the charts and Elko is playing everybody.

[KamaraPolice]

If Adams comes back after losing two first round offensive lineman, he’s ill-informed.

[corysold]

Adams isn't in the Heisman discussion because he has had to come out of just about every game due to injury and he had 53 yards on 19 carries vs. Georgia.

Running for long runs vs bad teams doesn't impress anyone. He'll have his chance to get in the race, but it will take a few 200 yard games vs the likes of USC, Stanford and Miami.

[The eND]

Barkley makes long runs against bad teams, too

But Barkley has tons of all-purpose yards too. Why don't we ever have that type of versatile do everything player?

[tneun89]

Barkley is the front runner because he was in the preseason Heisman discussion, is on a Top 5 team, and is an all-around great back. While his running stats are impressive, they don't blow you away and are actually less impressive compared to Adams.

Barkley: 102 carries, 649 yards (6.4 ypc), 6 TD
Adams: 86 carries, 776 yards (9.0 ypc), 5 TD.

Here are the game-by-game stats for Barkley - only 2 games over 100 yards (1 over 200 yards):

Akron: 14 carries, 172 yards, 2 TD
Pitt:14 carries, 88 yards, 1 TD
Georgia State: 10 carries, 47 yards
@ Iowa: 28 carries, 211 yards, 1 TD
Indiana: 20 carries, 56 yards
@ Northwestern:16 carries, 75 yards, 2 TD

Adams has 4 100-yard games (1 over 200 yards, 2 over 150 yards). He only rushed for 53 yards on 19 carries against UGA, and 56 yards on 9 carries against MSU (which compares to Barkley's games against Georgia State and Indiana).

One difference is Barkley is much more valuable catching the ball out of the backfield (he leads PSU in receiving).

Barkley: 29 receptions, 395 yards (13.6 ypr), 2 TD
Adams: 9 receptions, 84 yards (9.3 ypr), 0 TD

Barkley also returns kicks and has returned one for a TD (opening kickoff against Indiana).

At this point, I would be surprised if Adams comes back. He seems to always be banged up and NFL running backs have a short shelf life anyway. He already has one major knee injury from high school. Plus, while I think the OL will still be good next year, they won't be as dominant (minus the UGA game) as they have been this year. If he stays, it's because he is a captain, loves ND, and wants to win a championship. I think he would get preseason Heisman hype if he does come back. While I think he is the type of player who would stay for his senior season, I think it makes too much sense for him to leave after this season.

[Soko]

Originally Posted by KamaraPolice

If Adams comes back after losing two first round offensive lineman, he’s ill-informed.

Yeah, he should probably leave. He is constantly getting banged up and RBs with pro potential should not stick around 4 years.

Plus Nelson is gone. McGlinchey too but more so Nelson, that guy is a beast. It should be a no brainer that he declares.

[hawaiiirish]

Adams has had a great season--HE WILL NOT RETURN--it would be beyond foolish

Heisman Sheisman---have a few more big days against better teams and he will make plenty o dough in the draft--that's what matters-----and he helps us WIN OF COURSE!

aloha

[ndomer4]

With his injury history and how good he has looked he would be foolish to come back. Dexter is going to have lots of time to showcase too, he will blow up even more and I know he's going to test through the roof.

We are seeing how short an NFL runnigbacks career is recently. These guys need to save their bodies so they can get through that first contract and try to strike gold on their second and likely only chance at a huge deal.

I'm surprised Josh hasn't got more recognition but he'll have lots of chances. If Josh hadn't left for injuries and played full games he'd be leading the country in rush yards. Let's enjoy the talents of these backs, they're as good as gone for next season.

Josh Adams for ROY!

[davislove]

Im gonna say it. I'm gonna get bashed for it but it won't be the first time. I'm gonna say it.

I think josh is faking injuries. After he gets his yards he wants to shut it down and preserve his body and health for the nfl. He's hurt every game but not enough to miss any games.

I said it.

[corysold]

Originally Posted by davislove

Im gonna say it. I'm gonna get bashed for it but it won't be the first time. I'm gonna say it.

I think josh is faking injuries. After he gets his yards he wants to shut it down and preserve his body and health for the nfl. He's hurt every game but not enough to miss any games.

I said it.

So then when teams question his durability in the pre draft interviews, he lies and said he was faking? I think he'd be playing more if they weren't winning by 20 every game.

[davislove]

Originally Posted by corysold

So then when teams question his durability in the pre draft interviews, he lies and said he was faking? I think he'd be playing more if they weren't winning by 20 every game.

He just say he was cramping up. He's not missing games, he's just getting his 100 yds and then not take anymore chances.

[Dardo]

Originally Posted by davislove

Im gonna say it. I'm gonna get bashed for it but it won't be the first time. I'm gonna say it.

I think josh is faking injuries. After he gets his yards he wants to shut it down and preserve his body and health for the nfl. He's hurt every game but not enough to miss any games.

I said it.

Dude, what a moronic take. Now maybe it's true. Maybe there isn't a single player in college football who gives a crap about anything more than making it to the NFL. But there is literally ZERO evidence to support your theory that Adams is faking injuries. I'd argue the opposite, that just by watching him run you can tell he isn't saving his body (not that I would blame him if he did.)

I think it's normally fine to attack players for the things they do on the field, but it always seems like weak **** to say that individual players "don't love football" or "don't work hard enough" like some people on this board like to do from time to time. Maybe, just maybe, a kid that's been hurt every year since his junior year of high school is still hurt, or hurt again. Strange thought, I know.

[ndomer4]

Originally Posted by davislove

Im gonna say it. I'm gonna get bashed for it but it won't be the first time. I'm gonna say it.

I think josh is faking injuries. After he gets his yards he wants to shut it down and preserve his body and health for the nfl. He's hurt every game but not enough to miss any games.

I said it.

Not saying it isn't possible and guys don't do it but I would never think Josh would be one to do this. The thing about ankle injuries is you aggravate them every game, especially at runningback.

To my count he got injured in the MSU game and has played every game since but has been taken out because we were up big and there was no point in risking injury since we need him for USC.

This is a topic nobody has the right to really delve into, we know nothing as to what these guys bodies are going through. There might be guys who fake injuries but there is a whole lot more that play through them and have too much pride to admit that their play is hampered by it, as I think is the case with ESB.

[davislove]

Originally Posted by Dardo

Dude, what a moronic take. Now maybe it's true. Maybe there isn't a single player in college football who gives a crap about anything more than making it to the NFL. But there is literally ZERO evidence to support your theory that Adams is faking injuries. I'd argue the opposite, that just by watching him run you can tell he isn't saving his body (not that I would blame him if he did.)

I think it's normally fine to attack players for the things they do on the field, but it always seems like weak **** to say that individual players "don't love football" or "don't work hard enough" like some people on this board like to do from time to time. Maybe, just maybe, a kid that's been hurt every year since his junior year of high school is still hurt, or hurt again. Strange thought, I know.

We are deep at running back. If he is hurt, give him a week off like jones and williams did. We've seen guys sit out bowl games in the past. Players having one eye on the league is the wave of the future.

How many nd players have walked away from the game in recent years? Not all of our guys love the game.

[tneun89]

Originally Posted by davislove

We are deep at running back. If he is hurt, give him a week off like jones and williams did. We've seen guys sit out bowl games in the past. Players having one eye on the league is the wave of the future.

How many nd players have walked away from the game in recent years? Not all of our guys love the game.

Josh is a junior captain and one of the true leaders on the team. If you listen to his interviews and read articles about him, it is obvious how much he loves ND and loves the game. He is giving everything he has every game. He plays hurt. Last year, he hurt his hamstring in fall camp enough that he missed a ton of practice. Yet he still played through that injury the entire season and didn't miss a game. This year it is mostly his ankle, but he seems to have other issues as well. His running style and stature as a taller running back are reasons why he always seems to get banged up. But he plays through it and is running hard. He is a true leader.

This also isn't like sitting out bowl games. Fournette and McCaffrey sat out "meaningless" bowl games because their teams missed the playoffs and they were first round picks - Top 10 picks. Adams is a good back, but he is not a first round pick. Plus, these games all matter because ND is trying to get into the playoff. So, it's not really apples to apples IMO.

[JTennant]

No way a 1400 yard back stays in school. They have the lowest life expectancy of any position group.

Get your money now son. If you blow out your knee take some of your multimillion dollar contract and finish out at Notre Dame for 40k or whatever it costs for a year's tuition.

[Irish_Convert]

I don't think he stays if he finishes the season like he started but I don't think he'd be in the top five for the Heisman Trophy even if he did.

I personally think the Heisman is overrated anyway, it's a symbol of prestige as much as anything else and winning it wouldn't guarantee success at the pro level. That's me though, the only award/title I care about is a championship title, not any individual accolades.

[gasher]

Originally Posted by JTennant

No way a 1400 yard back stays in school. They have the lowest life expectancy of any position group.

Get your money now son. If you blow out your knee take some of your multimillion dollar contract and finish out at Notre Dame for 40k or whatever it costs for a year's tuition.

A couple years ago, in the middle of the Northwestern player strike conversation, didn't IU and the Big 10 come out with free tuition and health care for life for its student athletes and did ND follow that lead?

[LasVegasIrish]

It is probably in Adams' best interest to enter the draft. He has dealt with some minor injuries and a big one while in HS. No need to put that extra tread on his tires during his senior season.

Not that it means anything to Adams, but that the guy that should and will benefit the most from him leaving is Dexter Williams. He doesn't have much wear and tear and could really benefit in the draft as a workhorse for a season.

[ndomer4]

Originally Posted by LasVegasIrish

It is probably in Adams' best interest to enter the draft. He has dealt with some minor injuries and a big one while in HS. No need to put that extra tread on his tires during his senior season.

Not that it means anything to Adams, but that the guy that should and will benefit the most from him leaving is Dexter Williams. He doesn't have much wear and tear and could really benefit in the draft as a workhorse for a season.

I think he'll get enough in the stretch run to showcase his abilities if he hasn't already. He's going to test good just like Adams and has great size, no point for him to stay either

We might have the two biggest home run threats in college football. I mean how often does a team have 2 guys pretty much averaging 10 yards a carry?

[dangeruss]

i could see adams leaving after this year do to his past injuries. if he does come back he'll most likely become NDs all time leading rusher.

also does anyone think adams will break George gipps YPC record that's stood for like 80 years this year?

[JTennant]

Originally Posted by gasher

A couple years ago, in the middle of the Northwestern player strike conversation, didn't IU and the Big 10 come out with free tuition and health care for life for its student athletes and did ND follow that lead?

That I'm not sure. You may want to research if Jimmy Clausen had to pay to finish up school. I know he came back to finish, but that may have been before the union movement in the Big10

Regardless, with millions in the bank or liquid assets paying 40k to finish out your degree is a drop in the bucket.

[corysold]

Originally Posted by JTennant

That I'm not sure. You may want to research if Jimmy Clausen had to pay to finish up school. I know he came back to finish, but that may have been before the union movement in the Big10

Regardless, with millions in the bank or liquid assets paying 40k to finish out your degree is a drop in the bucket.

The problem is RB just don't really go that high anymore. Sure, there are the few outliers, but only 3-5 have been going before round 3 in the recent drafts.

Adams might be one of the top backs off the board, but if he is into the 3rd/4th round, the money, while still a lot, isn't put it in the bank and retire sort of money.

http://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-d...-values-2016-4

The 3rd/4th round contracts are in the 2.5-3.5 million range, but guaranteed money is under $700,000. Even lower into round 4. Pay your agent, taxes and support staff and that goes pretty quick. $40,000 isn't a drop in the bucket at that stage.

I totally agree he should go to the NFL as soon as possible, but RB's aren't making the big dollars until their second contract.

[JTennant]

Originally Posted by corysold

The problem is RB just don't really go that high anymore. Sure, there are the few outliers, but only 3-5 have been going before round 3 in the recent drafts.

Adams might be one of the top backs off the board, but if he is into the 3rd/4th round, the money, while still a lot, isn't put it in the bank and retire sort of money.

http://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-d...-values-2016-4

The 3rd/4th round contracts are in the 2.5-3.5 million range, but guaranteed money is under $700,000. Even lower into round 4. Pay your agent, taxes and support staff and that goes pretty quick. $40,000 isn't a drop in the bucket at that stage.

I totally agree he should go to the NFL as soon as possible, but RB's aren't making the big dollars until their second contract.

I see where you're going with his draft stock. Whenever I analyze a business decision I don't look just at the present trade off.. IE What's his draft ceiling by holding out? How much is there to gain. If he goes from a 3/4 to a 2/3 IMO I don't think it's that much of a gain to stay in school and risk nearly all of it (assuming he takes out an insurance policy). If he is a 5th rounder now and after one year he could be a top 3 back taken in the first 15 picks now we're talking the difference between a 2 million deal over 5 versus a 15-20 million dollar deal over 5, so that could be something to think about.. Would you risk a career ending injury the potential to negligibly improve your draft stock? This is all subjective and takes into account my view on money.

40k is a drop in the bucket with 700k - 3.5 in net worth for something as important as a degree. If you're living well below your means, 40k will not disrupt his potential to be a multimillionaire. At 10% ROR his money will double nearly every 7 years. Get paid now, pay for education later. This part isn't subjective. It stings writing a 40k check I think at any wealth level but at 700k it's not that big of a deal.

[corysold]

Originally Posted by JTennant

I see where you're going with his draft stock. Whenever I analyze a business decision I don't look just at the present trade off.. IE What's his draft ceiling by holding out? How much is there to gain. If he goes from a 3/4 to a 2/3 IMO I don't think it's that much of a gain to stay in school and risk nearly all of it (assuming he takes out an insurance policy). If he is a 5th rounder now and after one year he could be a top 3 back taken in the first 15 picks now we're talking the difference between a 2 million deal over 5 versus a 15-20 million dollar deal over 5, so that could be something to think about.. Would you risk a career ending injury the potential to negligibly improve your draft stock? This is all subjective and takes into account my view on money.

40k is a drop in the bucket with 700k - 3.5 in net worth for something as important as a degree. If you're living well below your means, 40k will not disrupt his potential to be a multimillionaire. At 10% ROR his money will double nearly every 7 years. Get paid now, pay for education later. This part isn't subjective. It stings writing a 40k check I think at any wealth level but at 700k it's not that big of a deal.

Good points. I'm don't think he's ever going to be a first round back. Looking at the last 4 drafts, the guys taken in the first two rounds are:

Fournette
McCaffrey
Dalvin Cook
Joe Mixon
Ezikiel Elliot
Derrick Henry
Todd Gurley
Melvin Gordon
TJ Yeldon
Ameer Abdullah
Carlos Hyde
Jeremy Hill

Adams might get into that range, I just wonder if he is at their level if he doens't have McGlinchey/Nelson as his left side. Who knows.

I also agree that $40,000 is well worth it for the benefit of a degree, even if he had to take out a loan to do it. Simply pointing out that the 2.5 million dollar contract is actually only guaranteed to be something like $300,000 after all is said and done.